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[Quick!] Need help, what is the max distance one falls in a round?
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<blockquote data-quote="Azul" data-source="post: 889898" data-attributes="member: 11779"><p><strong>Re: Teleportation and conservation of momentum</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I love physics and all too, but this is a fantasy game. I think option 3 here is the most reasonable compromise. "Fantasy physics" that seem to apply in D&D, especially in regards to magic seem to be far more simplistic and based on one's current <strong><em>perceived frame of reference</em></strong> rather than any more realistic physics. Hence, if you teleport while standing still, you are standing still at the other end. All of the complex realities of planetary rotation and other messy physics are ignored. Everything revolves around reality *as the characters would perceive it* rather than as real-world physics dictates it would be. Subjective physics rather than objective physics, so to speak.</p><p></p><p>Option 3 seems to strike a nice balance between appearing to preserve momentum which viscerally feels right, at least to me, and helps avoid some truly grotesque abuses of the game system - e.g. put a parachute on a blink dog (to reduce his terminal velocity to less than his maximum dimension door distance) and he could dimension door his way into orbit and back (well assuming he could tolerate the vacuum - if there is a vacuum in your world).</p><p></p><p>Sure, you can buy yourself a "safe" round by teleporting/dimension dooring upwards, but you will have built up speed in the process which will put you in a world of hurt when you zot back down (nothing a feather fall can't fix, but still). Each action has a reaction but the logic of it is kept simple.</p><p></p><p>The reason I like this solution is because it preserves *perceived* momentum (which feels right in the simplified physics of the D&D magic system). Yeah, it's little more than a house rule or an opinion, but to my mind, it fits, causes the least headaches and is the most resistant to abuse by munchkins who try to abuse game mechanics. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> </p><p></p><p>Allowing someone to select their velocity upon teleporting/dimension dooring is a recipe for disaster... Imagine a high level wizard/sorcerer teleporting up 100 km over a population center with a big chunk of something dense and heat resistant and a shapechange (to something immune to fire) spell on himself - he sets his velocity to meteor strike speeds (say 10km/s)... his immunity to fire lets him ignore reentry burn and he teleports away after 1 round... to somewhere else (far away) at zero velocity relative to the ground.</p><p></p><p>Here's the catch... There is still that large (50lbs per level of additional stuff can be teleported with the caster... so about a 1/2 ton rock at 20th level) rock hurtling down at 10km/s and about to hit that population centre (probably an enemy city or fortress) with an impact so great that it might well produce a mushroom cloud. Impact is in about a round. Damage and area of effect for that much kinetic energy hitting the earth is off the scale. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /> </p><p></p><p>That kind of devestation is simply far beyond anything any 9th level spell should be capable of doing.... let alone what a 5th level spell should be capable of... it's well into the epic spell range (and I think calling down a city-wrecking meteor would be a doozy of an epic spell <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />).</p><p></p><p>Now, think about all the evil outsiders who are immune to fire damage (which re-entry style burnup would be) and can teleport without error at will. These beings have every motive to use any bulky object as a pseudo-meteorite in combat. Who cares about the 1/day Meteor Swarm ability of a pit fiend when it can do THAT over and over and over until it gets bored and the kingdom it is fighting is little more than a crater-pocked moonscape?! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /> </p><p></p><p>Maintaining true velocity relative to a planet (let alone the galaxy or universe in a setting which allowed travel between worlds) would of course simply splatter the teleporting mage against the first surface he impacted (pretty much as if he was shot out of a cannon). <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></p><p></p><p>Repeat after me - real world physics and reality warping magic don't mix. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Azul, post: 889898, member: 11779"] [b]Re: Teleportation and conservation of momentum[/b] I love physics and all too, but this is a fantasy game. I think option 3 here is the most reasonable compromise. "Fantasy physics" that seem to apply in D&D, especially in regards to magic seem to be far more simplistic and based on one's current [b][i]perceived frame of reference[/i][/b] rather than any more realistic physics. Hence, if you teleport while standing still, you are standing still at the other end. All of the complex realities of planetary rotation and other messy physics are ignored. Everything revolves around reality *as the characters would perceive it* rather than as real-world physics dictates it would be. Subjective physics rather than objective physics, so to speak. Option 3 seems to strike a nice balance between appearing to preserve momentum which viscerally feels right, at least to me, and helps avoid some truly grotesque abuses of the game system - e.g. put a parachute on a blink dog (to reduce his terminal velocity to less than his maximum dimension door distance) and he could dimension door his way into orbit and back (well assuming he could tolerate the vacuum - if there is a vacuum in your world). Sure, you can buy yourself a "safe" round by teleporting/dimension dooring upwards, but you will have built up speed in the process which will put you in a world of hurt when you zot back down (nothing a feather fall can't fix, but still). Each action has a reaction but the logic of it is kept simple. The reason I like this solution is because it preserves *perceived* momentum (which feels right in the simplified physics of the D&D magic system). Yeah, it's little more than a house rule or an opinion, but to my mind, it fits, causes the least headaches and is the most resistant to abuse by munchkins who try to abuse game mechanics. :rolleyes: Allowing someone to select their velocity upon teleporting/dimension dooring is a recipe for disaster... Imagine a high level wizard/sorcerer teleporting up 100 km over a population center with a big chunk of something dense and heat resistant and a shapechange (to something immune to fire) spell on himself - he sets his velocity to meteor strike speeds (say 10km/s)... his immunity to fire lets him ignore reentry burn and he teleports away after 1 round... to somewhere else (far away) at zero velocity relative to the ground. Here's the catch... There is still that large (50lbs per level of additional stuff can be teleported with the caster... so about a 1/2 ton rock at 20th level) rock hurtling down at 10km/s and about to hit that population centre (probably an enemy city or fortress) with an impact so great that it might well produce a mushroom cloud. Impact is in about a round. Damage and area of effect for that much kinetic energy hitting the earth is off the scale. :eek: That kind of devestation is simply far beyond anything any 9th level spell should be capable of doing.... let alone what a 5th level spell should be capable of... it's well into the epic spell range (and I think calling down a city-wrecking meteor would be a doozy of an epic spell :D). Now, think about all the evil outsiders who are immune to fire damage (which re-entry style burnup would be) and can teleport without error at will. These beings have every motive to use any bulky object as a pseudo-meteorite in combat. Who cares about the 1/day Meteor Swarm ability of a pit fiend when it can do THAT over and over and over until it gets bored and the kingdom it is fighting is little more than a crater-pocked moonscape?! :eek: Maintaining true velocity relative to a planet (let alone the galaxy or universe in a setting which allowed travel between worlds) would of course simply splatter the teleporting mage against the first surface he impacted (pretty much as if he was shot out of a cannon). :rolleyes: Repeat after me - real world physics and reality warping magic don't mix. :D [/QUOTE]
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[Quick!] Need help, what is the max distance one falls in a round?
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