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<blockquote data-quote="Imaculata" data-source="post: 7533529" data-attributes="member: 6801286"><p>Not entirely. It was a surprise going into the movie. But once the movie started heading slightly in that direction, I was genuinely excited at what they might do. Instead, as stated above, they were just yanking our chains a bit.</p><p></p><p>And that's exactly my problem with all this. It is very easy to "yank the audience's chains", and to have people mistake that for being an unexpected twist. But it takes effort to actually write a satisfying plot. It felt like the movie went out of its way to constantly yank those chains, and then have no satisfying resolution to it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I consider myself a pretty big Starwars fan. I loved the original trilogy, hated the prequels, loved TFA, and hated Rogue One (a movie which everyone else seems to love, God knows why). I'm not anti-Disney, not even remotely. I judge a product on its own merits. If it's good it's good, and if it's bad then it's bad, regardless of whether Disney or Lucas made it. I don't care who made it, I care about the final product.</p><p></p><p>There are parts of TLJ that I enjoyed, and I tried really hard to enjoy it. But unlike TFA, it didn't take me along for a ride. There were a lot of elements that just didn't work. Some hokey acting at the start, some misplaced humor that felt not in line with the tone of the rest of a scene, and some twists that weren't really twists, but the afore mentioned 'yanking of chains'. Occasionally I was into it. The opening bombing scene was pretty good, and I loved the big fight with Rey and Kylo Ren versus Snoke's guards. I could even get onboard with some of the interesting stuff they did in regards to Rey's visions, the way she connected with Kylo Ren. I thought that was really well done. It wasn't until the revelation in regards to Rey's parents, that I felt really disappointed. There was so much they could have done with that, and they just really dropped the ball. The odd thing is, that it felt like the director thought he was really smart with that 'twist'. It's not. It's dumb and disappointing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think there are a lot of things they could have done. First of all, I have no issue with a fanbase getting a plotpoint right. George RR Martin (writer of Game of Thrones) has often said that even if fans guess his twists correctly, he still wouldn't want to change it, because if he did all the hints leading up to that twist would no longer make sense. Besides, it is impossible for fans not to guess correctly if you give the entire planet years to think about it. Fans will go through every possibility. And I am in agreement with Mr Martin here, just stick to your guns and stay the course.</p><p></p><p>That said, could they have come up with something that (most) people didn't expect? I think so. Bare in mind, I am no script writer, but just off the top of my head: The twist could have been that she had no parents at all.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, I hated that scene.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But it doesn't work for me, because we have barely gottten to know Snoke. Who Snoke is, and what his powers are, are some of the plot hooks set up by TFA. You cannot then leave those hooks hanging and kill him off before answering those questions. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel his transition into being the big bad isn't earned at this point. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think it would. If both characters turned away form their respective sides, and both became rogue Jedi, that would be something that we haven't seen in the movies before. We may grow to like Kylo Ren as a character more, by having him team up with Rey. Or we could have Kylo Ren team up with the rebels to try and save Rey from the dark side. There's some interesting shifting of sides that could be done here, which hooks well into the unknown origins of Rey's strong force powers. I think having Rey's powers being something bad, is also a great way to dispel her Marie-Sue-ness</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I really wish we would have seen the Knights of Ren in this movie. Another plot hook they left hanging. Hux isn't very interesting as a villain to me though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaculata, post: 7533529, member: 6801286"] Not entirely. It was a surprise going into the movie. But once the movie started heading slightly in that direction, I was genuinely excited at what they might do. Instead, as stated above, they were just yanking our chains a bit. And that's exactly my problem with all this. It is very easy to "yank the audience's chains", and to have people mistake that for being an unexpected twist. But it takes effort to actually write a satisfying plot. It felt like the movie went out of its way to constantly yank those chains, and then have no satisfying resolution to it. I consider myself a pretty big Starwars fan. I loved the original trilogy, hated the prequels, loved TFA, and hated Rogue One (a movie which everyone else seems to love, God knows why). I'm not anti-Disney, not even remotely. I judge a product on its own merits. If it's good it's good, and if it's bad then it's bad, regardless of whether Disney or Lucas made it. I don't care who made it, I care about the final product. There are parts of TLJ that I enjoyed, and I tried really hard to enjoy it. But unlike TFA, it didn't take me along for a ride. There were a lot of elements that just didn't work. Some hokey acting at the start, some misplaced humor that felt not in line with the tone of the rest of a scene, and some twists that weren't really twists, but the afore mentioned 'yanking of chains'. Occasionally I was into it. The opening bombing scene was pretty good, and I loved the big fight with Rey and Kylo Ren versus Snoke's guards. I could even get onboard with some of the interesting stuff they did in regards to Rey's visions, the way she connected with Kylo Ren. I thought that was really well done. It wasn't until the revelation in regards to Rey's parents, that I felt really disappointed. There was so much they could have done with that, and they just really dropped the ball. The odd thing is, that it felt like the director thought he was really smart with that 'twist'. It's not. It's dumb and disappointing. I think there are a lot of things they could have done. First of all, I have no issue with a fanbase getting a plotpoint right. George RR Martin (writer of Game of Thrones) has often said that even if fans guess his twists correctly, he still wouldn't want to change it, because if he did all the hints leading up to that twist would no longer make sense. Besides, it is impossible for fans not to guess correctly if you give the entire planet years to think about it. Fans will go through every possibility. And I am in agreement with Mr Martin here, just stick to your guns and stay the course. That said, could they have come up with something that (most) people didn't expect? I think so. Bare in mind, I am no script writer, but just off the top of my head: The twist could have been that she had no parents at all. Oh, I hated that scene. But it doesn't work for me, because we have barely gottten to know Snoke. Who Snoke is, and what his powers are, are some of the plot hooks set up by TFA. You cannot then leave those hooks hanging and kill him off before answering those questions. I feel his transition into being the big bad isn't earned at this point. I don't think it would. If both characters turned away form their respective sides, and both became rogue Jedi, that would be something that we haven't seen in the movies before. We may grow to like Kylo Ren as a character more, by having him team up with Rey. Or we could have Kylo Ren team up with the rebels to try and save Rey from the dark side. There's some interesting shifting of sides that could be done here, which hooks well into the unknown origins of Rey's strong force powers. I think having Rey's powers being something bad, is also a great way to dispel her Marie-Sue-ness I really wish we would have seen the Knights of Ren in this movie. Another plot hook they left hanging. Hux isn't very interesting as a villain to me though. [/QUOTE]
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