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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7536571" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>Yes, because JJ Abrams is the filmmaker we want answering questions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really.</p><p>He killed his father in TFA, completing his journey to the Dark Side. TLJ had Rey question again if he could return, and instead he doubled down and slew his master so he and Rey could rule together. </p><p>He's far, far beyond the pale. </p><p></p><p>He literally spaced his own mom! What else does he need to do to be evil? Dropkick a baby while eating a puppy? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Surprise! The trailer lied. It was misdirection. </p><p>Here's the thing: trailers aren't made by the filmmakers. They're advertising and made by companies that specialise in marketing. This is like complaining you were misled by the poster...</p><p></p><p>The first time the DIRECTOR of the film saw the trailer was the day it premiered. And prior to that he was telling people not to watch the trailers, fearing they'd spoil too much. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, that's not really thing in TFA. Ren asks her who trained her, but we as an audience know: no one. She's just strong in the Force. At no point does the film ask us to question who her parents are—her parent's aren't even mentioned—or the source of her powers. Even when we see Rey abandoned that's not refereed to as her parents, just the people she's waiting for.</p><p>The speculation? That was all on us. </p><p>We the audience. </p><p>The Star Wars fans who know that Star Wars is famous for parental plot twists. So when we saw the seeds for one, we all leapt into speculation. And then disappointing ourselves because the movie didn't stoop to cheap fanservice and have her as Obi Wan's daughter or Mace Windu's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. </p><p></p><p></p><p>First, people complained about that after <em>The Force Awakens</em> and <em>Rogue One</em>. And then we got <em>The Last Jedi</em>. And half of TLJ <em>was</em> something new. </p><p>So then people complained <em>harder</em>. Rey not being a special chosen one related to a main character. The hero's plans failing. Snoak not being around for the full trilogy. Poe being "wrong" about his leader. Previously unseen Force powers. Not repeating beats from past movies. Not having a lightsaber duel. </p><p>People don't want new. They want new in a comfortable and safe way that fits their expectations. </p><p></p><p>Second, the fallen hero being redeemed in the final act ISN'T <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />ING NEW! We saw that with Vader. New is having Kylo Ren be irredeemable and put down like a dog. </p><p></p><p>Also... shocker here: Star Wars is for kids. Kids are a huge audience. They'll never do an R-rated Star Wars. Even the streaming shows on Disney+ will be less edgy than the Network Marvel shows and not approach the Netflix Marvel stuff. </p><p>Given it's for kids, you don't get deep into the weeds of philosophy for a kid's movie. You can't have an introspective metaphysical climax where Ben Solo redeems a fallen Rey without his lightsaber will have a theater full of bored kids. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Is she not in control of her own destiny and requires someone else to give her back her life and restore her agency? Yes? Then she's a damsel in distress.</p><p>Rey <em>needs</em> to be an active part of her own life. When the most important character to Rey's story is someone else, then you've taken away her agency and made her a supporting character in her own story. If "Rey's story" is really "the story of how Kylo Ren saved Rey" then the movie has made a terrible, terrible mistake. </p><p></p><p></p><p>And yet Luke, being the Gary Stu of Gary Stus (despite NEVER being called that by people who call Rey a Mary Sue) pretty easily resisted the call of the Dark Side. Having Rey falls inherently means she is less strong than Luke. Especially as Luke required the threat on Leia to come close to falling and Anakin needed a lifetime of temptation climaxing in the desire to save Padme. Rey has... what? What attachment drives her to fall? There's no attachment. </p><p>Just having her succumb to the temptation of temptation makes her super effing weak.</p><p></p><p>And, again, it would mean she is literally repeating Anakin's character arc by being a desert kid inherently strong in the Force who succumbs to the Dark Side and has to be redeemed. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I've seen that movie before. </p><p>That was <em>Return of the Jedi</em>. </p><p></p><p>Plus... you kinda don't want the First Order stopped. They did that with the Empire and it just means no more easy stories, as you need a villain. I hope they learn their lesson after having to have <em>The Force Awakens</em> undo the victory of the Rebels and have the First Order around in some fashion, albeit humbled and weaker.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think the film would have been much improved by a fight on the planet they're training (and just make people wonder how they found Luke).</p><p>Plus, a present common enemy would eliminate Luke's character arc of deciding to willingly return to the fight. By bringing the fight to him, it negates any choice he would make. And if it doesn't... well then we end up with the exact same movie, only with a lightsaber fight added on for cheap thrills. It's literally superflous. </p><p></p><p>But, again, why do you care about the Knights of Ren? Have you been given any reason to care? </p><p>Reiterating my point, realistically, the "Knights of Ren" are a bunch of former 12 and 13 year old padawans who participated in the lightsaber equivalent of a school shooting and decided to give themselves a scary pompous name like the edgelords they are. </p><p>They're not badass elite mercenaries. They're not a highly trained force of darksiders hand picked by Kylo Ren to serve as his enforcers. They were fellow students who sided with him when he said "Luke tried to kill me. I'm going to burn the school down and kill everyone here. Are you with me... or not?"</p><p></p><p>The ONLY things that makes them cool are the name and the mystery. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Probably.</p><p>But then they decided to leave the writing to the people <em>making </em>the films, rather than having the trilogy planned and outlined by management and studio heads.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 7536571, member: 37579"] Yes, because JJ Abrams is the filmmaker we want answering questions. Not really. He killed his father in TFA, completing his journey to the Dark Side. TLJ had Rey question again if he could return, and instead he doubled down and slew his master so he and Rey could rule together. He's far, far beyond the pale. He literally spaced his own mom! What else does he need to do to be evil? Dropkick a baby while eating a puppy? Surprise! The trailer lied. It was misdirection. Here's the thing: trailers aren't made by the filmmakers. They're advertising and made by companies that specialise in marketing. This is like complaining you were misled by the poster... The first time the DIRECTOR of the film saw the trailer was the day it premiered. And prior to that he was telling people not to watch the trailers, fearing they'd spoil too much. Again, that's not really thing in TFA. Ren asks her who trained her, but we as an audience know: no one. She's just strong in the Force. At no point does the film ask us to question who her parents are—her parent's aren't even mentioned—or the source of her powers. Even when we see Rey abandoned that's not refereed to as her parents, just the people she's waiting for. The speculation? That was all on us. We the audience. The Star Wars fans who know that Star Wars is famous for parental plot twists. So when we saw the seeds for one, we all leapt into speculation. And then disappointing ourselves because the movie didn't stoop to cheap fanservice and have her as Obi Wan's daughter or Mace Windu's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate. First, people complained about that after [I]The Force Awakens[/I] and [I]Rogue One[/I]. And then we got [I]The Last Jedi[/I]. And half of TLJ [I]was[/I] something new. So then people complained [I]harder[/I]. Rey not being a special chosen one related to a main character. The hero's plans failing. Snoak not being around for the full trilogy. Poe being "wrong" about his leader. Previously unseen Force powers. Not repeating beats from past movies. Not having a lightsaber duel. People don't want new. They want new in a comfortable and safe way that fits their expectations. Second, the fallen hero being redeemed in the final act ISN'T :):):):)ING NEW! We saw that with Vader. New is having Kylo Ren be irredeemable and put down like a dog. Also... shocker here: Star Wars is for kids. Kids are a huge audience. They'll never do an R-rated Star Wars. Even the streaming shows on Disney+ will be less edgy than the Network Marvel shows and not approach the Netflix Marvel stuff. Given it's for kids, you don't get deep into the weeds of philosophy for a kid's movie. You can't have an introspective metaphysical climax where Ben Solo redeems a fallen Rey without his lightsaber will have a theater full of bored kids. Is she not in control of her own destiny and requires someone else to give her back her life and restore her agency? Yes? Then she's a damsel in distress. Rey [I]needs[/I] to be an active part of her own life. When the most important character to Rey's story is someone else, then you've taken away her agency and made her a supporting character in her own story. If "Rey's story" is really "the story of how Kylo Ren saved Rey" then the movie has made a terrible, terrible mistake. And yet Luke, being the Gary Stu of Gary Stus (despite NEVER being called that by people who call Rey a Mary Sue) pretty easily resisted the call of the Dark Side. Having Rey falls inherently means she is less strong than Luke. Especially as Luke required the threat on Leia to come close to falling and Anakin needed a lifetime of temptation climaxing in the desire to save Padme. Rey has... what? What attachment drives her to fall? There's no attachment. Just having her succumb to the temptation of temptation makes her super effing weak. And, again, it would mean she is literally repeating Anakin's character arc by being a desert kid inherently strong in the Force who succumbs to the Dark Side and has to be redeemed. I've seen that movie before. That was [I]Return of the Jedi[/I]. Plus... you kinda don't want the First Order stopped. They did that with the Empire and it just means no more easy stories, as you need a villain. I hope they learn their lesson after having to have [I]The Force Awakens[/I] undo the victory of the Rebels and have the First Order around in some fashion, albeit humbled and weaker. I don't think the film would have been much improved by a fight on the planet they're training (and just make people wonder how they found Luke). Plus, a present common enemy would eliminate Luke's character arc of deciding to willingly return to the fight. By bringing the fight to him, it negates any choice he would make. And if it doesn't... well then we end up with the exact same movie, only with a lightsaber fight added on for cheap thrills. It's literally superflous. But, again, why do you care about the Knights of Ren? Have you been given any reason to care? Reiterating my point, realistically, the "Knights of Ren" are a bunch of former 12 and 13 year old padawans who participated in the lightsaber equivalent of a school shooting and decided to give themselves a scary pompous name like the edgelords they are. They're not badass elite mercenaries. They're not a highly trained force of darksiders hand picked by Kylo Ren to serve as his enforcers. They were fellow students who sided with him when he said "Luke tried to kill me. I'm going to burn the school down and kill everyone here. Are you with me... or not?" The ONLY things that makes them cool are the name and the mystery. Probably. But then they decided to leave the writing to the people [I]making [/I]the films, rather than having the trilogy planned and outlined by management and studio heads. [/QUOTE]
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