Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Ravenloft Campaigns: What’s the meta-point?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4667147" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I'm not the least interested in arguing it. You are the one it seems to me that has been hinting around that the problem with Ravenloft is that you don't like what you perceive to be its balance of authority. Your the one complaining about the fact that the PC's can't 'win', or that the campaign world is ruled by beings that are for all practical purposes omnipotent - complaints that strike me as rather odd since the same complaint could be made against virtually any fantasy world and that they are false to the same extent that they are false about every other campaign world. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. Keep that in mind before suggesting that its an issue particularly unique to Ravenloft.</p><p></p><p>As for whether there is any difference between 'good' and 'what you like', if there isn't then it seems to me that there isn't much point in asking for a consensus opinion on what the core story of Ravenloft is or how Ravenloft should be updated. No one can have a valid opinion on 'what you like' except you. If 'good' is only 'what Irma prefers', then no one can tell you what the core story is since you've just made up your mind already and at most are looking for validation. Likewise, if you don't like Ravenloft and its distinctive features in the first place, then you don't seem to me to be wanting to update Ravenloft and there is no point in asking anyone else how they'd do it since 'what Irma likes' won't be recognizably Ravenloft in the end anyway. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I thought I'd tried to do that early on. It increasingly seems like you didn't really want the questions you initially asked answered. You asked what might attract PC's to Ravenloft. The Ravenloft campaign setting was an artificial world. When people have answered, "I liked Ravenloft because it was an artificial world", you've treated that answer as if it was wrong. The Ravenloft campaign setting was bleak. When people have answered, "I liked Ravenloft because it was a bleak setting.", you've treated that answer as if it was wrong. The Ravenloft campaign setting featured domains, borders, Darklords, and mysterious Dark Powers in the background. You suggestions for fixing Ravenloft seem to revolve around removing its most distinctive features. </p><p></p><p>Leaving aside what seems to me to be your hostility to D&D generally, the attraction of Ravenloft is that it is a bleak, harsh and nearly hopeless setting. That is the attraction. Bleaker, harsher, and more hopeless is attractive particularly to an experienced PC because it makes the small rewards just that much more savory, because after a while sometimes you want to play a game that isn't at its heart about acquiring phenomenal personal power, and because it simply seems to offer that much more challenge after slaying dragons becomes ordinary and run of the mill. Likewise, the attraction of Ravenloft is that - for a PC that hasn't poured over the DM's material - it is a campaign setting that will be filled with mysteries, bizarre events, claustrophobia, and dread. </p><p></p><p>As written, these features exist out of the box without the need to be invented. Can they be abused? Sure, but any setting is open to abuse and can become degenerate in the hands of a bad DM. Dragonlance in the hands of a bad DM is simply a railroad. Forgotten Realms in the hands of a bad DM is simply sit back and watch the uber-NPC's do all the heavy lifting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4667147, member: 4937"] I'm not the least interested in arguing it. You are the one it seems to me that has been hinting around that the problem with Ravenloft is that you don't like what you perceive to be its balance of authority. Your the one complaining about the fact that the PC's can't 'win', or that the campaign world is ruled by beings that are for all practical purposes omnipotent - complaints that strike me as rather odd since the same complaint could be made against virtually any fantasy world and that they are false to the same extent that they are false about every other campaign world. Yes. Keep that in mind before suggesting that its an issue particularly unique to Ravenloft. As for whether there is any difference between 'good' and 'what you like', if there isn't then it seems to me that there isn't much point in asking for a consensus opinion on what the core story of Ravenloft is or how Ravenloft should be updated. No one can have a valid opinion on 'what you like' except you. If 'good' is only 'what Irma prefers', then no one can tell you what the core story is since you've just made up your mind already and at most are looking for validation. Likewise, if you don't like Ravenloft and its distinctive features in the first place, then you don't seem to me to be wanting to update Ravenloft and there is no point in asking anyone else how they'd do it since 'what Irma likes' won't be recognizably Ravenloft in the end anyway. I thought I'd tried to do that early on. It increasingly seems like you didn't really want the questions you initially asked answered. You asked what might attract PC's to Ravenloft. The Ravenloft campaign setting was an artificial world. When people have answered, "I liked Ravenloft because it was an artificial world", you've treated that answer as if it was wrong. The Ravenloft campaign setting was bleak. When people have answered, "I liked Ravenloft because it was a bleak setting.", you've treated that answer as if it was wrong. The Ravenloft campaign setting featured domains, borders, Darklords, and mysterious Dark Powers in the background. You suggestions for fixing Ravenloft seem to revolve around removing its most distinctive features. Leaving aside what seems to me to be your hostility to D&D generally, the attraction of Ravenloft is that it is a bleak, harsh and nearly hopeless setting. That is the attraction. Bleaker, harsher, and more hopeless is attractive particularly to an experienced PC because it makes the small rewards just that much more savory, because after a while sometimes you want to play a game that isn't at its heart about acquiring phenomenal personal power, and because it simply seems to offer that much more challenge after slaying dragons becomes ordinary and run of the mill. Likewise, the attraction of Ravenloft is that - for a PC that hasn't poured over the DM's material - it is a campaign setting that will be filled with mysteries, bizarre events, claustrophobia, and dread. As written, these features exist out of the box without the need to be invented. Can they be abused? Sure, but any setting is open to abuse and can become degenerate in the hands of a bad DM. Dragonlance in the hands of a bad DM is simply a railroad. Forgotten Realms in the hands of a bad DM is simply sit back and watch the uber-NPC's do all the heavy lifting. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Ravenloft Campaigns: What’s the meta-point?
Top