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Ravenloft Campaigns: What’s the meta-point?
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<blockquote data-quote="jdrakeh" data-source="post: 4667376" data-attributes="member: 13892"><p>RPG settings accommodate more than one type of story, and Ravenloft is no exception. That is to say, there is more than one type of adventure and, thus, more than one type of theme in any given RPG setting, Ravenloft included. You're asking for something that doesn't exist (i.e., an all-encompassing theme that runs through all possible adventures). </p><p></p><p>Likewise, in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fiction" target="_blank">Gothic literature</a> there are stories about people playing god and discovering that their best efforts fall short (Frankenstein), stories about seeking out forbidden love or knowledge (The Name of The Rose, The Monk), practicing foul magic (The Necromancer; or, The Tale of the Black Forest) and so forth. </p><p></p><p>There is no one, single, unifying theme that marks all of these works as being "Gothic" but, rather, a broad <em>palette</em> of many themes and tenets that defines the genre in question. The closest that you will ever get is to say that Gothic works contain elements of both Horror and Romance. The myriad of these same varied themes are also present in Ravenloft. </p><p></p><p>As is the case in Gothic literature, Ravenloft PCs can just easily be fearless monster hunters (as Jonathan Harker), seekers of forbidden knowledge (as William of Baskerville), seekers of forbidden love (as was Adso of Melk), or even the evil-doers of such fables (if you choose to approach it from that angle). There are as many different ways to play 'Gothic adventure' as there are works of Gothic fiction. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You might not be asking about them but you <em>do</em> seem to be awfully hung up on many of those things not being "Gothic" (indeed, you do specifically say so, as cited below). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You <em>did</em> heavily suggest that certain elements of Ravenloft aren't Gothic when you talked about certain elements of the setting not meeting your standard for "gothic horror" as represented by a random Google search:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This being the case, I again point out that inclusion of tropes from other genres doesn't make a work defined primarily by Gothic tropes 'non-Gothic' (or <em>less</em> Gothic) in any way. In fact, in this particular instance, Ravenloft is billed as 'Gothic Fantasy' which is an accurate representation. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, Ravenloft <em>does</em> have consistency. As much as any other D&D setting, AFAICT. Much of what you claim makes it thematically inconsistent (frex, geographical boundaries) doesn't and, even if incongruent or supernatural geography <em>is</em> an issue for you, it's easily handwaved away (as I previously note). </p><p></p><p>I have to agree with Cerebrim and a few other posters that picking on setting elements that have almost <em>nothing</em> to do with genre does make it seem like you're inventing reasons to dismiss Ravenloft (<em>especially</em> when you seem to be ignoring advice on how to downplay those elements if they bother you). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that you have been given many such opinions here, but you are dismissing most of them as unsatisfactory based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre. You keep saying that you're interested in "Gothic Horror" but you keep dismissing relevant insight into the genre based on what you think it should be, rather than on what it <em>is</em>. </p><p></p><p>I suggest that you take some time to better understand the genre. I think that reading the following books will give you a better idea of what adventures can be had within the confines of the Gothic genre than any message post will: </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_of_Otranto" target="_blank">The Castle of Otranto</a></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monk" target="_blank">The Monk</a></li> </ul><p></p><p>These are two of the works that initially defined "Gothic" as its own genre, though I would also add <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuthering_Heights" target="_blank">Wuthering Heights</a> if you're looking for something more familiar or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Necromancer;_or,_The_Tale_of_the_Black_Forest" target="_blank">The Necromancer</a>, if you're specifically looking for something particularly heavy on the Horror.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jdrakeh, post: 4667376, member: 13892"] RPG settings accommodate more than one type of story, and Ravenloft is no exception. That is to say, there is more than one type of adventure and, thus, more than one type of theme in any given RPG setting, Ravenloft included. You're asking for something that doesn't exist (i.e., an all-encompassing theme that runs through all possible adventures). Likewise, in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fiction"]Gothic literature[/URL] there are stories about people playing god and discovering that their best efforts fall short (Frankenstein), stories about seeking out forbidden love or knowledge (The Name of The Rose, The Monk), practicing foul magic (The Necromancer; or, The Tale of the Black Forest) and so forth. There is no one, single, unifying theme that marks all of these works as being "Gothic" but, rather, a broad [I]palette[/I] of many themes and tenets that defines the genre in question. The closest that you will ever get is to say that Gothic works contain elements of both Horror and Romance. The myriad of these same varied themes are also present in Ravenloft. As is the case in Gothic literature, Ravenloft PCs can just easily be fearless monster hunters (as Jonathan Harker), seekers of forbidden knowledge (as William of Baskerville), seekers of forbidden love (as was Adso of Melk), or even the evil-doers of such fables (if you choose to approach it from that angle). There are as many different ways to play 'Gothic adventure' as there are works of Gothic fiction. You might not be asking about them but you [I]do[/I] seem to be awfully hung up on many of those things not being "Gothic" (indeed, you do specifically say so, as cited below). You [i]did[/i] heavily suggest that certain elements of Ravenloft aren't Gothic when you talked about certain elements of the setting not meeting your standard for "gothic horror" as represented by a random Google search: This being the case, I again point out that inclusion of tropes from other genres doesn't make a work defined primarily by Gothic tropes 'non-Gothic' (or [I]less[/I] Gothic) in any way. In fact, in this particular instance, Ravenloft is billed as 'Gothic Fantasy' which is an accurate representation. Well, Ravenloft [I]does[/I] have consistency. As much as any other D&D setting, AFAICT. Much of what you claim makes it thematically inconsistent (frex, geographical boundaries) doesn't and, even if incongruent or supernatural geography [I]is[/I] an issue for you, it's easily handwaved away (as I previously note). I have to agree with Cerebrim and a few other posters that picking on setting elements that have almost [I]nothing[/I] to do with genre does make it seem like you're inventing reasons to dismiss Ravenloft ([I]especially[/I] when you seem to be ignoring advice on how to downplay those elements if they bother you). I think that you have been given many such opinions here, but you are dismissing most of them as unsatisfactory based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre. You keep saying that you're interested in "Gothic Horror" but you keep dismissing relevant insight into the genre based on what you think it should be, rather than on what it [i]is[/i]. I suggest that you take some time to better understand the genre. I think that reading the following books will give you a better idea of what adventures can be had within the confines of the Gothic genre than any message post will: [list][*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_of_Otranto"]The Castle of Otranto[/URL] [*][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monk"]The Monk[/URL][/list] These are two of the works that initially defined "Gothic" as its own genre, though I would also add [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuthering_Heights"]Wuthering Heights[/URL] if you're looking for something more familiar or [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Necromancer;_or,_The_Tale_of_the_Black_Forest"]The Necromancer[/URL], if you're specifically looking for something particularly heavy on the Horror. [/QUOTE]
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