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<blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 4032373" data-attributes="member: 32740"><p>The problem there is that the remainder of the party "spoils" the more effective chances of surprise when they are spotted/heard. Surprise only still exists because the two advance PC's are still hidden.</p><p></p><p>D&D rules are written to provide for ONE surprise round - and then a tossup to determine order in the first and all subsequent rounds. You don't get 6 surprise rounds of activity to move in close and set things up. You move in close OUTSIDE of combat. AFTER you're in position you initiate your attack, get your one surprise round, and then proceed normally. In this case only 2 PC's were in position before the rest of the party was spotted. At that point BOTH sides are aware that the other exists - except that there are still the two hidden PC's. That is all that enables the PC's to still get their one surprise round, otherwise the surprise round would have been lost entirely.</p><p></p><p>Attempting to ambush by stealth in D&D always carries these restrictions. If just one PC gives themselves away the combat begins and any further time for obtaining optimum positioning or preparations is lost unless it can be done DURING the surprise round. Otherwise, all the approach and setup work is done <em>outside</em> of combat and the surprise round is used to TAKE those "outside-of-combat-readied-actions".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Man in the Funny Hat, post: 4032373, member: 32740"] The problem there is that the remainder of the party "spoils" the more effective chances of surprise when they are spotted/heard. Surprise only still exists because the two advance PC's are still hidden. D&D rules are written to provide for ONE surprise round - and then a tossup to determine order in the first and all subsequent rounds. You don't get 6 surprise rounds of activity to move in close and set things up. You move in close OUTSIDE of combat. AFTER you're in position you initiate your attack, get your one surprise round, and then proceed normally. In this case only 2 PC's were in position before the rest of the party was spotted. At that point BOTH sides are aware that the other exists - except that there are still the two hidden PC's. That is all that enables the PC's to still get their one surprise round, otherwise the surprise round would have been lost entirely. Attempting to ambush by stealth in D&D always carries these restrictions. If just one PC gives themselves away the combat begins and any further time for obtaining optimum positioning or preparations is lost unless it can be done DURING the surprise round. Otherwise, all the approach and setup work is done [I]outside[/I] of combat and the surprise round is used to TAKE those "outside-of-combat-readied-actions". [/QUOTE]
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