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Ready action gamebreaking situations
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<blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 6749680" data-attributes="member: 32740"><p>Yeah, actually it does. 3E is not 1E. There is no "declaration" phase where you state what you are intending to do and then are committed to doing that which you declared, only that, and nothing but that. You take your actions as they come, as you decide to do, at any instant on your turn. Readied actions of others INTERRUPT your own actions and prevent them from actually taking place. Once it becomes your turn again you can do WHATEVER you like - finish what you started or do something else. If you took movement prior to having your actions interrupted then that movement is still used but nothing else you INTENDED to do has actually happened and just as on any other regular turn you can change your mind about what you then want to do (insofar as you are able to do it) or simply finish what you started. Otherwise you don't first attack and THEN the readied action occurs - the readied action occurs first and then you're left to do whatever you are still capable of doing.</p><p></p><p>Assume you have two attacks. You take a 5' step to be adjacent to a target. You can use full attacks. You use your first attack on the target. If you fail to kill him you can still use your second attack to finish him off. If you DO hit and kill him then you can still use your second attack by... throwing a dagger at someone. Even if you initially intended to full attack the target you stepped next to YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR MIND in the middle of attacking him, use one melee attack upon your first target and then having changed your mind, even though you did not kill that first target, turn and throw a dagger at a completely different target. [Taking the AoO in doing so, of course.]</p><p></p><p>Assume you have two attacks and are already adjacent to a target. He's acting first and for whatever reasons decides to ready an attack against you IF you attack him (nevermind the fact that this makes little sense over simply attacking you outright, we'll just take it as read that he has his reasons for it). Your turn arrives and you decide to full-attack him. Your action is interrupted. You haven't actually done ANYTHING yet. It becomes his turn. He takes his attack against you and adds a 5' step. He didn't even have to declare that he would take a 5' step. He can add that spontaneously. Now it is your turn again. DO WHATEVER YOU LIKE. You aren't obligated to follow him and attack even though that is what triggered his readied action. You haven't moved - you haven't actually done ANYTHING yet. Finish what you started if you like and just add your own initial 5' step to move up next to him before attacking. Change your mind and run 15' over to a different target if you like. Don't attack at all and simply dig out a potion to drink if that's what you think is best given your IMMEDIATE circumstances. You ARE NOT obligated to attack even though that's what you initially stated you were going to do. That intended action was interrupted and prevented from taking place yet. Now you can do it or not do it. It doesn't matter.</p><p></p><p>All this is why the idea of being able to perpetually remain out of reach with a 5' step, while also perpetually being able to take your own melee attacks against an enemy is a non-starter. It was never intended to be possible. It's been repeatedly shown to be unworkable (short of, say, having a weapon with 10' reach, and even then isn't perpetually useable). It's been officially ruled not to work. It simply survives as a possibility because people still get very confused reading the rules about readied actions and the 5' step, or simply continue to insist on reading into it what they WANT to read into it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is also very true. The abuse of this tactic is facilitated by DM's who allow players to state extraordinarily vague triggers for multiple and complex combinations of actions. "If it looks like he's going to run over and attack me then my readied attack will be against him before he even moves, but if he doesn't move my way then I'll attack that other guy." <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> If you run that part of it reasonably and disallow those kind of "readied actions" and triggers then players will eventually realize that the Ready action does only have a limited use - but it IS still very useful in those limited circumstances.</p><p></p><p>Again, it's mostly players who want all of the advantages, will tolerate no disadvantages, and who can bully a DM into being told what the rules are even if it means disregarding sensible game practices and common sense (or a DM who doesn't grok the rules any better than the players and/or doesn't understand the reasons why there's a DM at all).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Man in the Funny Hat, post: 6749680, member: 32740"] Yeah, actually it does. 3E is not 1E. There is no "declaration" phase where you state what you are intending to do and then are committed to doing that which you declared, only that, and nothing but that. You take your actions as they come, as you decide to do, at any instant on your turn. Readied actions of others INTERRUPT your own actions and prevent them from actually taking place. Once it becomes your turn again you can do WHATEVER you like - finish what you started or do something else. If you took movement prior to having your actions interrupted then that movement is still used but nothing else you INTENDED to do has actually happened and just as on any other regular turn you can change your mind about what you then want to do (insofar as you are able to do it) or simply finish what you started. Otherwise you don't first attack and THEN the readied action occurs - the readied action occurs first and then you're left to do whatever you are still capable of doing. Assume you have two attacks. You take a 5' step to be adjacent to a target. You can use full attacks. You use your first attack on the target. If you fail to kill him you can still use your second attack to finish him off. If you DO hit and kill him then you can still use your second attack by... throwing a dagger at someone. Even if you initially intended to full attack the target you stepped next to YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR MIND in the middle of attacking him, use one melee attack upon your first target and then having changed your mind, even though you did not kill that first target, turn and throw a dagger at a completely different target. [Taking the AoO in doing so, of course.] Assume you have two attacks and are already adjacent to a target. He's acting first and for whatever reasons decides to ready an attack against you IF you attack him (nevermind the fact that this makes little sense over simply attacking you outright, we'll just take it as read that he has his reasons for it). Your turn arrives and you decide to full-attack him. Your action is interrupted. You haven't actually done ANYTHING yet. It becomes his turn. He takes his attack against you and adds a 5' step. He didn't even have to declare that he would take a 5' step. He can add that spontaneously. Now it is your turn again. DO WHATEVER YOU LIKE. You aren't obligated to follow him and attack even though that is what triggered his readied action. You haven't moved - you haven't actually done ANYTHING yet. Finish what you started if you like and just add your own initial 5' step to move up next to him before attacking. Change your mind and run 15' over to a different target if you like. Don't attack at all and simply dig out a potion to drink if that's what you think is best given your IMMEDIATE circumstances. You ARE NOT obligated to attack even though that's what you initially stated you were going to do. That intended action was interrupted and prevented from taking place yet. Now you can do it or not do it. It doesn't matter. All this is why the idea of being able to perpetually remain out of reach with a 5' step, while also perpetually being able to take your own melee attacks against an enemy is a non-starter. It was never intended to be possible. It's been repeatedly shown to be unworkable (short of, say, having a weapon with 10' reach, and even then isn't perpetually useable). It's been officially ruled not to work. It simply survives as a possibility because people still get very confused reading the rules about readied actions and the 5' step, or simply continue to insist on reading into it what they WANT to read into it. This is also very true. The abuse of this tactic is facilitated by DM's who allow players to state extraordinarily vague triggers for multiple and complex combinations of actions. "If it looks like he's going to run over and attack me then my readied attack will be against him before he even moves, but if he doesn't move my way then I'll attack that other guy." :) If you run that part of it reasonably and disallow those kind of "readied actions" and triggers then players will eventually realize that the Ready action does only have a limited use - but it IS still very useful in those limited circumstances. Again, it's mostly players who want all of the advantages, will tolerate no disadvantages, and who can bully a DM into being told what the rules are even if it means disregarding sensible game practices and common sense (or a DM who doesn't grok the rules any better than the players and/or doesn't understand the reasons why there's a DM at all). [/QUOTE]
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