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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
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<blockquote data-quote="Kannik" data-source="post: 5878289" data-attributes="member: 984"><p>Indeed, the terminology used misdirected many... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or, instead, we recognize that, like the term Hit Point, the terms hit and damage are just abstract terms used to represent that you have damaged the character's hit point value (in whatever manner is appropriate for the type of attack). Defences are abstract; hitting means you got past these abstract defences to affect a character's overall combat/action capacity, known as hit points, which is itself an abstracted entity that has no effect until it hits 0 (except in 4e, where at 50% value it can trigger certain things). Yes, you did damage -- to hit points. </p><p></p><p>The terms are all used to represent the abstract notions, and have a meaning specific to the game of D&D. (Queue the old "level" terminology humour...) When a player says "hit me" in blackjack, it has a meaning that has nothing to do with being physically smacked in the face (well, I dunno, maybe there are kinds of blackjack like that <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" />). </p><p></p><p>Can it be confused? Yes, sure, by many including myself. Should we alter the meaning of HP because of it? I say no, read on...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I think you are dismissing how "common" (a subjective term) it is for people to find it very odd that someone can take 10 points of physical damage (your chest wound example) 10 times in a fight and keep whistling merrily along. At the end of any encounter, the average party would look like they've just fallen through a box of rusty razor blades, that were moving, and on fire. And that 50 point critical... did the person lose an arm? Ouch! Amazing that they can keep swinging that two handed sword so easily.</p><p></p><p>If instead we say "well, those cuts are all superficial, it's all flesh wounds due to their experience in turning the blows away," ok then, no problem -- but then the pain of bruises and nicks can be overcome by a pep talk just fine, adrenaline is an amazing thing. Not to mention this matches the fiction quite well, no shin bones showing in sight.</p><p></p><p>You yourself are saying "Hp has always been a combo of real damage and other things." But then it appears to me that you turn around and say "but don't get other things in my HP, it's gotta be all physical wounds, all the time!" So I'm not sure where the confusion lies. It is both physical and other things, and as Gary wrote in the source document: the majority of HP at higher levels is not physical capacity but those very other things. And given that, other things therefore can be "healed" by other things than bandages, ointment and divine radiance.</p><p></p><p>Note that this doesn't mean that I don't think there isn't some oddity with how an Inspiring Word interacts with the hard rule of 0 HP = unconscious and dying saves. That I would like to see resolved. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>peace,</p><p></p><p>Kannik</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kannik, post: 5878289, member: 984"] Indeed, the terminology used misdirected many... Or, instead, we recognize that, like the term Hit Point, the terms hit and damage are just abstract terms used to represent that you have damaged the character's hit point value (in whatever manner is appropriate for the type of attack). Defences are abstract; hitting means you got past these abstract defences to affect a character's overall combat/action capacity, known as hit points, which is itself an abstracted entity that has no effect until it hits 0 (except in 4e, where at 50% value it can trigger certain things). Yes, you did damage -- to hit points. The terms are all used to represent the abstract notions, and have a meaning specific to the game of D&D. (Queue the old "level" terminology humour...) When a player says "hit me" in blackjack, it has a meaning that has nothing to do with being physically smacked in the face (well, I dunno, maybe there are kinds of blackjack like that :P). Can it be confused? Yes, sure, by many including myself. Should we alter the meaning of HP because of it? I say no, read on... And I think you are dismissing how "common" (a subjective term) it is for people to find it very odd that someone can take 10 points of physical damage (your chest wound example) 10 times in a fight and keep whistling merrily along. At the end of any encounter, the average party would look like they've just fallen through a box of rusty razor blades, that were moving, and on fire. And that 50 point critical... did the person lose an arm? Ouch! Amazing that they can keep swinging that two handed sword so easily. If instead we say "well, those cuts are all superficial, it's all flesh wounds due to their experience in turning the blows away," ok then, no problem -- but then the pain of bruises and nicks can be overcome by a pep talk just fine, adrenaline is an amazing thing. Not to mention this matches the fiction quite well, no shin bones showing in sight. You yourself are saying "Hp has always been a combo of real damage and other things." But then it appears to me that you turn around and say "but don't get other things in my HP, it's gotta be all physical wounds, all the time!" So I'm not sure where the confusion lies. It is both physical and other things, and as Gary wrote in the source document: the majority of HP at higher levels is not physical capacity but those very other things. And given that, other things therefore can be "healed" by other things than bandages, ointment and divine radiance. Note that this doesn't mean that I don't think there isn't some oddity with how an Inspiring Word interacts with the hard rule of 0 HP = unconscious and dying saves. That I would like to see resolved. :) peace, Kannik [/QUOTE]
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