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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
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<blockquote data-quote="wrightdjohn" data-source="post: 5878553" data-attributes="member: 43519"><p>Hit points in prior editions have always been defined as a mixture of physical wounds, and other stuff (vitality, fatigue, morale, whatever). It was definitely a mixture though and not purely non-physical. The hero was assumed to be able to fight through his wounds because he was a hero. That was the 1e,2e,3e D&D definition. This definition precludes saying only the last hit point is physical too.</p><p></p><p>The problem with 4e martial healing is it can't explain the physical part. It works 100% of the time and we know that some percentage of damage greater than 0% is physical. That part cannot be explained by martial healing.</p><p></p><p>Second. I think morale is a crazy measure. So when the dragon hits you with a fear effect and you fail your save and are running for your life how many hit points of damage did you take. Unless the dragon breaths or attacks in some other way you took no damage. The game is rife with examples of physical attacks being the only way to reduce these supposedly morale based hit points. Also when you go down, you are unconscious. Not in shock, not dazed or stunned or anything else. You are out. A martial healer healing you from this state is completely unbelievable.</p><p></p><p>Let's face it. All the editions of D&D prior to 4e really did treat it like physical damage in every single way except in the one paragraph describing them. All other rules etc.. treated them as physical. It is why people rejected 4e in this area. 4e started treating hit points like they were almost entirely non-physical.</p><p></p><p>The solution:</p><p>We all want a game we can play. If I can't rid the game of healing surges and martial dailies with very minimal effort I won't bother. How that is accomplished can be debated. I believe though a lot more people want traditional hit points than 4e's version of them. I feel the 3e/Pathfinder group and the 1e/2e group in combination are bigger than the 4e group. </p><p></p><p>So let's just advocate for a system that can cleanly play both ways if surges/martial dailes really are necessary for the 4e crowd. (Personally I think even half those people would gladly toss them.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wrightdjohn, post: 5878553, member: 43519"] Hit points in prior editions have always been defined as a mixture of physical wounds, and other stuff (vitality, fatigue, morale, whatever). It was definitely a mixture though and not purely non-physical. The hero was assumed to be able to fight through his wounds because he was a hero. That was the 1e,2e,3e D&D definition. This definition precludes saying only the last hit point is physical too. The problem with 4e martial healing is it can't explain the physical part. It works 100% of the time and we know that some percentage of damage greater than 0% is physical. That part cannot be explained by martial healing. Second. I think morale is a crazy measure. So when the dragon hits you with a fear effect and you fail your save and are running for your life how many hit points of damage did you take. Unless the dragon breaths or attacks in some other way you took no damage. The game is rife with examples of physical attacks being the only way to reduce these supposedly morale based hit points. Also when you go down, you are unconscious. Not in shock, not dazed or stunned or anything else. You are out. A martial healer healing you from this state is completely unbelievable. Let's face it. All the editions of D&D prior to 4e really did treat it like physical damage in every single way except in the one paragraph describing them. All other rules etc.. treated them as physical. It is why people rejected 4e in this area. 4e started treating hit points like they were almost entirely non-physical. The solution: We all want a game we can play. If I can't rid the game of healing surges and martial dailies with very minimal effort I won't bother. How that is accomplished can be debated. I believe though a lot more people want traditional hit points than 4e's version of them. I feel the 3e/Pathfinder group and the 1e/2e group in combination are bigger than the 4e group. So let's just advocate for a system that can cleanly play both ways if surges/martial dailes really are necessary for the 4e crowd. (Personally I think even half those people would gladly toss them.) [/QUOTE]
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