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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
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<blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 5894728" data-attributes="member: 6674889"><p><strong>Didn't they</strong></p><p></p><p>already state that healing surges would NOT be in 5e anyway? So why are we re-hashing this? I played a warlord (a killswitch and another bard|warlord) in 4e and loved it. It was fun, and exciting, and tactical. It makes me feel silly for ever having played 4e in a group without a leader. </p><p></p><p>BUT...the problem with warlord healing is not that it's mundane (you can easily re-fluff it, one of the strokes of genius of 4e), it's that even without a warlord or someone doing a healcheck, any plain old fighter can recover to full HP after every battle. The ONLY time you are seriously close to death is when (usually the striker) is out of surges, while the rest of the party can still march on. So...yeah, healing to full mundanely kills my suspension of disbelief, much more so than a warlord casting Inspiring Word. We just pretend like it's magic and move on. Also, why can't warlord's mundane healing powers just have a range of touch or personal, rather than range? Then you can pretend like he really is bandaging you or pulling that arrow out of your knee. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>OTOH : It's harder for me to pretend like a fighter healing himself to full after every battle without the aid of a cleric or a healing potion is possible, given our history of playing this game. Why do we need a cleric then? Oh wait, you don't. Try having no magical healing in earlier editions...you won't get far. This new "innovation" completely guts an entire class. Thanks, guys. I liked playing clerics in other editions. In 4e they seemed extremely lame to me, especially compared to warlords. </p><p></p><p>In our PF game we bought a wand of cure light wounds...as cheesy as that may seem, I'd much rather that as a solution to the 15 minute work day for melee types, than melee types not even needing magic at all to be able to run from room to room with only 5 minutes and it's like you are completely fresh. In playing 4e for three years, I've had Cure Light Wounds cast on my various characters a total of...hmm, scratches head : maybe three times? We even played without a warlord for the first year and a half. Sure it was slower and our war machine group was much less optimal in defeating battles, but we didn't die. Once. </p><p></p><p>Does that feel right, for D&D to any of you? A lot of my friends complained that 4e is too easy to stay alive, every class essentially has a multiclass in cleric for personal "cure spells". No, no, no, no. Please, no.</p><p></p><p>That's not right. Not to get all temper-tantrummy, but if surges exist in 5e or fighters can heal themselves to full without any assistance, I will probably think long and hard about passing on it. Also, take your surge count * your surge value = this is your REAL hp for the day. That number is WAAAAY too high for me. </p><p></p><p>You may forget that 25 HP at level 1 is a big boost from earlier editions, when you realize, wait, you actually have more like 100 HP total. At level 1. 'Nuff said.</p><p></p><p>Thankfully they've said surges are probably out. </p><p></p><p>== RIP, with a stake through their heart.</p><p></p><p>EDIT : Also, healing potions are completely worthless in 4e. Sad, sad, sad. I liked healing potions. Bring them back.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gorgoroth, post: 5894728, member: 6674889"] [b]Didn't they[/b] already state that healing surges would NOT be in 5e anyway? So why are we re-hashing this? I played a warlord (a killswitch and another bard|warlord) in 4e and loved it. It was fun, and exciting, and tactical. It makes me feel silly for ever having played 4e in a group without a leader. BUT...the problem with warlord healing is not that it's mundane (you can easily re-fluff it, one of the strokes of genius of 4e), it's that even without a warlord or someone doing a healcheck, any plain old fighter can recover to full HP after every battle. The ONLY time you are seriously close to death is when (usually the striker) is out of surges, while the rest of the party can still march on. So...yeah, healing to full mundanely kills my suspension of disbelief, much more so than a warlord casting Inspiring Word. We just pretend like it's magic and move on. Also, why can't warlord's mundane healing powers just have a range of touch or personal, rather than range? Then you can pretend like he really is bandaging you or pulling that arrow out of your knee. :) OTOH : It's harder for me to pretend like a fighter healing himself to full after every battle without the aid of a cleric or a healing potion is possible, given our history of playing this game. Why do we need a cleric then? Oh wait, you don't. Try having no magical healing in earlier editions...you won't get far. This new "innovation" completely guts an entire class. Thanks, guys. I liked playing clerics in other editions. In 4e they seemed extremely lame to me, especially compared to warlords. In our PF game we bought a wand of cure light wounds...as cheesy as that may seem, I'd much rather that as a solution to the 15 minute work day for melee types, than melee types not even needing magic at all to be able to run from room to room with only 5 minutes and it's like you are completely fresh. In playing 4e for three years, I've had Cure Light Wounds cast on my various characters a total of...hmm, scratches head : maybe three times? We even played without a warlord for the first year and a half. Sure it was slower and our war machine group was much less optimal in defeating battles, but we didn't die. Once. Does that feel right, for D&D to any of you? A lot of my friends complained that 4e is too easy to stay alive, every class essentially has a multiclass in cleric for personal "cure spells". No, no, no, no. Please, no. That's not right. Not to get all temper-tantrummy, but if surges exist in 5e or fighters can heal themselves to full without any assistance, I will probably think long and hard about passing on it. Also, take your surge count * your surge value = this is your REAL hp for the day. That number is WAAAAY too high for me. You may forget that 25 HP at level 1 is a big boost from earlier editions, when you realize, wait, you actually have more like 100 HP total. At level 1. 'Nuff said. Thankfully they've said surges are probably out. == RIP, with a stake through their heart. EDIT : Also, healing potions are completely worthless in 4e. Sad, sad, sad. I liked healing potions. Bring them back. [/QUOTE]
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