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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5895466" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>OK, so the class, specifically.</p><p></p><p>If I follow what you're saying, 4e 'killed' the cleric by not delivering enough TPKs in the absence of that specific class?</p><p></p><p>OK, that's true. 4e's emphasis on roles did eliminate the need for any one specific class. If no one feels like playing a prayer-mumbling servant of a deity, no one has to. Your leader functionality can come from a badass-warrior warlord, or chant-mumbling shaman ally of the spirits, or spell-mumbling tinkerer artificer or spell-singing teen heart-throb bard. One of those has gotta appeal to someone in just about any group.</p><p></p><p>By the same token, 4e also 'killed' the fighter, magic-user and thief.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It may be that your DM stuck to the standard encounter budget a little too closely, or that your party pushed the envelope on synergy or optimization a bit, or both. But it really sounds like you just have a very particular expectation about the game. I remember playing the game in that mode when I started, and while it was kinda fun in it's way, at the time, I fairly quickly moved on to more story-oriented approaches that tweaked rules, circumstance, and even fudged the occasional roll, to keep character deaths down to dramatically appropriate levels. 4e doesn't require that kind of tweaking, so, yes, it is absolutely less randomly lethal than it's predecessors. It can be rendered quite lethal if the DM so desires, though. It's really nothing more than encounter balance being more consistent.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and to tie it back, healing surges are part of that more consistent encounter balance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5895466, member: 996"] OK, so the class, specifically. If I follow what you're saying, 4e 'killed' the cleric by not delivering enough TPKs in the absence of that specific class? OK, that's true. 4e's emphasis on roles did eliminate the need for any one specific class. If no one feels like playing a prayer-mumbling servant of a deity, no one has to. Your leader functionality can come from a badass-warrior warlord, or chant-mumbling shaman ally of the spirits, or spell-mumbling tinkerer artificer or spell-singing teen heart-throb bard. One of those has gotta appeal to someone in just about any group. By the same token, 4e also 'killed' the fighter, magic-user and thief. It may be that your DM stuck to the standard encounter budget a little too closely, or that your party pushed the envelope on synergy or optimization a bit, or both. But it really sounds like you just have a very particular expectation about the game. I remember playing the game in that mode when I started, and while it was kinda fun in it's way, at the time, I fairly quickly moved on to more story-oriented approaches that tweaked rules, circumstance, and even fudged the occasional roll, to keep character deaths down to dramatically appropriate levels. 4e doesn't require that kind of tweaking, so, yes, it is absolutely less randomly lethal than it's predecessors. It can be rendered quite lethal if the DM so desires, though. It's really nothing more than encounter balance being more consistent. Oh, and to tie it back, healing surges are part of that more consistent encounter balance. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
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