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<blockquote data-quote="Zurai" data-source="post: 4280579" data-attributes="member: 52324"><p>[sblock=Ranger/ranged striker tactics discussion]</p><p>There's not a ton of it - they couldn't replace a wizard by any measure of thinking - but there are quite a few powers that stun, slow, weaken, or push, all of which I consider "control" effects. </p><p></p><p>Oh, I didn't mean that Fey Step would make him immune to being attacked, or even that any of his abilities would make him immune to being attacked. It's not a "make me safe" ability at all, not unless you're being grappled (which it works great for). It's a positioning ability. It makes terrain <em>always</em> work against the enemies, at least from the Immeral's perspective. No, his escape abilities come from class powers, like Yield Ground and Fox's Cunning (YG automatically cancels a melee attack against him by shifting away, FC does the same thing but gives him a basic attack with a bonus to attack equal to wisdom bonus), both of which are encounter powers.</p><p></p><p>No, my point in emphasizing his mobility is that he can get to wherever he needs to be, and he can keep away from the enemies in the first place. Even his at-will gives him a free shift in addition to the attack, which means he can effectively attack and move 7 just like an Elf. Most monsters move 6 or slower, which would mean they'd have to run/charge to catch him, which means they are only using their most basic attack.</p><p></p><p>Also, at least at this point in the game, his AC is actually going to be the same as a chainmail-wearing dwarf fighter <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> 2 from leather armor + 4 from dexterity vs 6 from chainmail. His Fortitude defense will be lower, but his Will should be about the same and his Reflex will be higher. He'll have less HP, fewer and less powerful surges, and no powers that let him heal himself, so he won't be replacing Osric on the front line, but he's not as squishy as a mage.</p><p></p><p>Oh, hell no. I'm not suicidal. His plan is to let everything run into polearm range of Osric, let him tangle them all up, and make use of the 3x3 difficult/blocking terrain that a dwarven polearm fighter represents to best advantage <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> He's not some maverick gunslinger. I think you'll see what I mean when we get some battles with a goodly amount of terrain on them. I can't wait to make some brute chase Immeral across a bunch of difficult terrain only to Fey Step back to the original side and toss a Hunter's Bear Trap on it to slow it and give it a 5 damage ongoing bleed as it trudges back through the difficult terrain 1 square at a time.</p><p></p><p><em>That</em> is what I mean by a Controller hybrid. If he can pull off something like that, he's stunned that creature for at least 2 turns, for all intents and purposes. He's taken a potentially dangerous foe out of the battle. Admittedly, he used a Daily to do it in the example, but that's just because he's first level. There are Encounter level powers that do similar things later on.</p><p></p><p>The great thing about Archer Rangers as ranged strikers is that they really don't have to sacrifice attack actions to move. An awful lot of the Ranger attack powers include movement in the attack. I'd say on the order of 25-30% - usually at least one out of every group of encounter or daily attack powers.[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zurai, post: 4280579, member: 52324"] [sblock=Ranger/ranged striker tactics discussion] There's not a ton of it - they couldn't replace a wizard by any measure of thinking - but there are quite a few powers that stun, slow, weaken, or push, all of which I consider "control" effects. Oh, I didn't mean that Fey Step would make him immune to being attacked, or even that any of his abilities would make him immune to being attacked. It's not a "make me safe" ability at all, not unless you're being grappled (which it works great for). It's a positioning ability. It makes terrain [i]always[/i] work against the enemies, at least from the Immeral's perspective. No, his escape abilities come from class powers, like Yield Ground and Fox's Cunning (YG automatically cancels a melee attack against him by shifting away, FC does the same thing but gives him a basic attack with a bonus to attack equal to wisdom bonus), both of which are encounter powers. No, my point in emphasizing his mobility is that he can get to wherever he needs to be, and he can keep away from the enemies in the first place. Even his at-will gives him a free shift in addition to the attack, which means he can effectively attack and move 7 just like an Elf. Most monsters move 6 or slower, which would mean they'd have to run/charge to catch him, which means they are only using their most basic attack. Also, at least at this point in the game, his AC is actually going to be the same as a chainmail-wearing dwarf fighter ;) 2 from leather armor + 4 from dexterity vs 6 from chainmail. His Fortitude defense will be lower, but his Will should be about the same and his Reflex will be higher. He'll have less HP, fewer and less powerful surges, and no powers that let him heal himself, so he won't be replacing Osric on the front line, but he's not as squishy as a mage. Oh, hell no. I'm not suicidal. His plan is to let everything run into polearm range of Osric, let him tangle them all up, and make use of the 3x3 difficult/blocking terrain that a dwarven polearm fighter represents to best advantage :P He's not some maverick gunslinger. I think you'll see what I mean when we get some battles with a goodly amount of terrain on them. I can't wait to make some brute chase Immeral across a bunch of difficult terrain only to Fey Step back to the original side and toss a Hunter's Bear Trap on it to slow it and give it a 5 damage ongoing bleed as it trudges back through the difficult terrain 1 square at a time. [i]That[/i] is what I mean by a Controller hybrid. If he can pull off something like that, he's stunned that creature for at least 2 turns, for all intents and purposes. He's taken a potentially dangerous foe out of the battle. Admittedly, he used a Daily to do it in the example, but that's just because he's first level. There are Encounter level powers that do similar things later on. The great thing about Archer Rangers as ranged strikers is that they really don't have to sacrifice attack actions to move. An awful lot of the Ranger attack powers include movement in the attack. I'd say on the order of 25-30% - usually at least one out of every group of encounter or daily attack powers.[/sblock] [/QUOTE]
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