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Redemption, the Force, and Morality [No Ep 7 Spoilers]
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6785549" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>This was going to be a reply to [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] in the Ep 7 thread.</p><p></p><p>The problem with objecting to Anakin Skywalker as a force ghost who's been redeemed is that it makes the underlying assumption that the Jedi are good guys. They might not use the Dark Side of the Force - but there's a long way between that and being good guys.</p><p></p><p>What do we know about the Jedi? Going just by the films.</p><p></p><p>Within the Jedi sphere of influence slavery is accepted. Qui-Gon Jinn isn't remotely disgusted by the slavery on Tattoine. The droids are almost all slaves, many of them sapient. The Jedi use an entire slave army in AotC FFS. "Guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy" for 1000 years haven't even taken a firm line that slavery is unjust. At best they are Lawful Neutral.</p><p></p><p>They take kids away from their parents normally at four years old. They then indoctrinate them to become soldiers from this age and start teaching them to use military weapons certainly by the time they are six.</p><p></p><p>Even "good" Jedi like Obi-Wan are not shown to have problems with mind controlling people. (Or with lying; the Sith are generally more honest than the Jedi.)</p><p></p><p>They teach emotional repression.</p><p></p><p>The Jedi are therefore Lawful Evil with good PR because the Empire is worse - but in most settings the above the law space wizards who train children the way they do would be the bad guys. Vader's redemption such as it was didn't take him further morally than Lawful Evil.</p><p></p><p>(This doesn't mean that all Jedi are LE. Merely that the order as a whole is - Luke is probably Neutral Good).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6785549, member: 87792"] This was going to be a reply to [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] in the Ep 7 thread. The problem with objecting to Anakin Skywalker as a force ghost who's been redeemed is that it makes the underlying assumption that the Jedi are good guys. They might not use the Dark Side of the Force - but there's a long way between that and being good guys. What do we know about the Jedi? Going just by the films. Within the Jedi sphere of influence slavery is accepted. Qui-Gon Jinn isn't remotely disgusted by the slavery on Tattoine. The droids are almost all slaves, many of them sapient. The Jedi use an entire slave army in AotC FFS. "Guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy" for 1000 years haven't even taken a firm line that slavery is unjust. At best they are Lawful Neutral. They take kids away from their parents normally at four years old. They then indoctrinate them to become soldiers from this age and start teaching them to use military weapons certainly by the time they are six. Even "good" Jedi like Obi-Wan are not shown to have problems with mind controlling people. (Or with lying; the Sith are generally more honest than the Jedi.) They teach emotional repression. The Jedi are therefore Lawful Evil with good PR because the Empire is worse - but in most settings the above the law space wizards who train children the way they do would be the bad guys. Vader's redemption such as it was didn't take him further morally than Lawful Evil. (This doesn't mean that all Jedi are LE. Merely that the order as a whole is - Luke is probably Neutral Good). [/QUOTE]
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Redemption, the Force, and Morality [No Ep 7 Spoilers]
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