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Reducing tiefling to ECL 0
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<blockquote data-quote="comrade raoul" data-source="post: 1079084" data-attributes="member: 554"><p>None taken. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>You may, however, have misinterpreted my argument. It's been my experience -- and I could certainly be wrong about this -- that even though all classes value some stats more than others, dedicated spellcasters -- wizards or sorcerers to a greater extent than clerics or druids* -- value their primary casting stat <em>much</em> more than they value anything else. Granted, wizards and sorcerers also don't mind good scores in Dex and Con (they need to stay alive like everyone else, of course), but I think these stats play second fiddle to Int or Cha (depending on whether you're into prepared or spontaneous spells) to a very large margin. I find that such a character, when making an "even" choice between a primary spellcasting stat and another stat, will almost always favor the spellcasting stat.</p><p></p><p>Melee types are much more complicated: while Str and Con are the two most important stats, Dex also matters as do, to lesser extents, Int (for Combat Expertise) and Wis (for all-important Will saves), and neither Str or Con in itself is so important that better scores in such a stat justify anything else. In short, fighters like Con, but they also like Str and Dex and extra feats. That is, the reason choosing an LA 0 race for melee characters is interesting (or <em>was</em> interesting, before the 3.5e über-dwarf) is that the elf's Dexterity, the dwarf's Constitution, the half-orc's Strength, or the human's bonus feat are all comparably desirable for melee types, and you have to choose between them.</p><p></p><p>My contention is that the choice would be much less interesting if there were an LA 0 race with a bonus to Int or Cha. Consider this -- if a wizard got a choice between being a human, with a bonus feat and more skills, or an elf, with nice +2 Dex and bow proficiency -- and an ECL 0 tiefling with +2 Int (which, of course, made him better at the thing he was most interested at being good at), which do you think he'd choose? If you don't think the choice is really clear, I think our disagreement may just be irresolvable.</p><p></p><p>* Because clerics and druids aren't the "nothing but casting" characters that sorcerers and wizards are, stat choices for them are a bit more complicated. Wisdom remains key, of course, but both clerics and druids are much more likely to mix it up in melee than their arcane counterparts, and as such are more interested in the physical stats.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="comrade raoul, post: 1079084, member: 554"] None taken. :) You may, however, have misinterpreted my argument. It's been my experience -- and I could certainly be wrong about this -- that even though all classes value some stats more than others, dedicated spellcasters -- wizards or sorcerers to a greater extent than clerics or druids* -- value their primary casting stat [i]much[/i] more than they value anything else. Granted, wizards and sorcerers also don't mind good scores in Dex and Con (they need to stay alive like everyone else, of course), but I think these stats play second fiddle to Int or Cha (depending on whether you're into prepared or spontaneous spells) to a very large margin. I find that such a character, when making an "even" choice between a primary spellcasting stat and another stat, will almost always favor the spellcasting stat. Melee types are much more complicated: while Str and Con are the two most important stats, Dex also matters as do, to lesser extents, Int (for Combat Expertise) and Wis (for all-important Will saves), and neither Str or Con in itself is so important that better scores in such a stat justify anything else. In short, fighters like Con, but they also like Str and Dex and extra feats. That is, the reason choosing an LA 0 race for melee characters is interesting (or [i]was[/i] interesting, before the 3.5e über-dwarf) is that the elf's Dexterity, the dwarf's Constitution, the half-orc's Strength, or the human's bonus feat are all comparably desirable for melee types, and you have to choose between them. My contention is that the choice would be much less interesting if there were an LA 0 race with a bonus to Int or Cha. Consider this -- if a wizard got a choice between being a human, with a bonus feat and more skills, or an elf, with nice +2 Dex and bow proficiency -- and an ECL 0 tiefling with +2 Int (which, of course, made him better at the thing he was most interested at being good at), which do you think he'd choose? If you don't think the choice is really clear, I think our disagreement may just be irresolvable. * Because clerics and druids aren't the "nothing but casting" characters that sorcerers and wizards are, stat choices for them are a bit more complicated. Wisdom remains key, of course, but both clerics and druids are much more likely to mix it up in melee than their arcane counterparts, and as such are more interested in the physical stats. [/QUOTE]
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