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Reliable Talent. What the what?
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<blockquote data-quote="kbrakke" data-source="post: 7289610" data-attributes="member: 6781797"><p>I'm pretty firmly in the camp of "I don't find it to be a concern" both from a mechanical and from a storytelling perspective. My main lack of concern comes from the part where most of the dramatic storytelling comes from playing as a group. I had a level 11+ rogue in a Princes of the Apocalypse game, he was great at sneaking around, picking locks, and hiding things. He wasn't great at going toe to toe with Fire Giants and dealing with Flying Dragons. Furthermore, him being great at sneaking didn't give the party any great advantage. So you can imagine the tension when he's already snuck in to position and now the rest of the party has to make it there, including our heavy armor wearing fighter and non-proficient bard. Often, if they really wanted to follow him, they would have to use spells to become invisible or use teleportation to try and bypass their weaknesses. It gave the rogue a niche among the party.</p><p></p><p>As far as solo missions go and dealing with the "rob a whole town" problem, it becomes a world building exercise. You have many great options. First and foremost, the loot of a town, probably not amazing. Perhaps when he was Tier 1 getting a few hundred gold by robbing a town blind would have been appealing, but that's not really anything noteworthy at level 11. Furthermore, you can determine at this point what on earth other high level thieves are doing in your world. Everyone that got to level 11 has this ability. Are they also just going to small villages and stealing chump change? Or perhaps is it time to introduce an expert level Thieves' guild. If they all have reliable stealth, it's obvious why no one has heard of them before. They can perhaps go on real heists, steal the crown jewels, or ancient scrolls and the like. </p><p></p><p>I understand that in order to build tension there needs to be a risk of failure, but unless your whole game is about a group of rogues robbing mundane villages this ability doesn't remove all tension. What it instead does is give the rogue a clear role and place to shine. You can then use this ability to expand your story in new and hopefully interesting ways. Remember that level 11 is a whole new tier. At tier 3 they are equipped to handle problems of multi-national importance. When I watch a James Bond movie I don't worry how he'll sneak past or deal with mooks, I wonder how he'll handle the villains right hand man. And that's the position that your rogue is in. </p><p></p><p>I would first think about world implications of reliable talent and how that changes the narrative focus first before making any changes. And then if the implications of this are too great, I would consider scaling everyone back E10 style. I would rate the ability to always succeed on hard stealth and lock picking checks as roughly the same as being able to summon angels to your side or create an army of ghouls.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kbrakke, post: 7289610, member: 6781797"] I'm pretty firmly in the camp of "I don't find it to be a concern" both from a mechanical and from a storytelling perspective. My main lack of concern comes from the part where most of the dramatic storytelling comes from playing as a group. I had a level 11+ rogue in a Princes of the Apocalypse game, he was great at sneaking around, picking locks, and hiding things. He wasn't great at going toe to toe with Fire Giants and dealing with Flying Dragons. Furthermore, him being great at sneaking didn't give the party any great advantage. So you can imagine the tension when he's already snuck in to position and now the rest of the party has to make it there, including our heavy armor wearing fighter and non-proficient bard. Often, if they really wanted to follow him, they would have to use spells to become invisible or use teleportation to try and bypass their weaknesses. It gave the rogue a niche among the party. As far as solo missions go and dealing with the "rob a whole town" problem, it becomes a world building exercise. You have many great options. First and foremost, the loot of a town, probably not amazing. Perhaps when he was Tier 1 getting a few hundred gold by robbing a town blind would have been appealing, but that's not really anything noteworthy at level 11. Furthermore, you can determine at this point what on earth other high level thieves are doing in your world. Everyone that got to level 11 has this ability. Are they also just going to small villages and stealing chump change? Or perhaps is it time to introduce an expert level Thieves' guild. If they all have reliable stealth, it's obvious why no one has heard of them before. They can perhaps go on real heists, steal the crown jewels, or ancient scrolls and the like. I understand that in order to build tension there needs to be a risk of failure, but unless your whole game is about a group of rogues robbing mundane villages this ability doesn't remove all tension. What it instead does is give the rogue a clear role and place to shine. You can then use this ability to expand your story in new and hopefully interesting ways. Remember that level 11 is a whole new tier. At tier 3 they are equipped to handle problems of multi-national importance. When I watch a James Bond movie I don't worry how he'll sneak past or deal with mooks, I wonder how he'll handle the villains right hand man. And that's the position that your rogue is in. I would first think about world implications of reliable talent and how that changes the narrative focus first before making any changes. And then if the implications of this are too great, I would consider scaling everyone back E10 style. I would rate the ability to always succeed on hard stealth and lock picking checks as roughly the same as being able to summon angels to your side or create an army of ghouls. [/QUOTE]
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