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Require Feedback on a by-the-book built Shadow Ninja
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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 7252106" data-attributes="member: 6786252"><p>Well, first thing we need to do is talk about shadow elf. That's from Kobald Press, not something most of us here are familiar with, so its impossible for us to judge it. I'm going to assume we're looking at a +WIS race. If not, then right then I'm going to stop you and suggest a race that does give it. </p><p></p><p>The Rogue subclass you're talking about is available free here: <a href="http://guidetohomebrew.blogspot.com/p/dark-arts-players.html" target="_blank">http://guidetohomebrew.blogspot.com/p/dark-arts-players.html</a> Might want to edit that into your main post so everyone can see it and be on the same page.</p><p></p><p>Then, lets consider action economy. The Shadow Monk is a warrior class that makes heavy use of its bonus action - not just for Shadow Step, but any default KI action. Rogue's Cunning Action and Severed Shadow is also competing here. If you use Hex from warlock, that's another. At most, you want two bonus actions you rely on. This is over the top, and too many dead levels. Meanwhile? You have almost nothing that is involving using up your reaction - just misty escape, and that's just once per rest; that leaves several rounds with nothing to do. That's not that great.</p><p></p><p>Pact of the Blade does nothing for your PC. You can already use weapons, and Thirsting Blade doesn't stack with Extra Attack. Both abilities just allow you to attack twice instead of once when you take the Attack Action. Fighter levels 11 and 20 are the only exception to this, because they flat out say "third" and "fourth" attacks. Every other feature says "two attacks." You're effectively investing 6 levels in warlock for Misty Escape, Blink, and Devils' Sight. That's too many levels for too little benefit; at best, three levels and drop misty escape. Think about getting a familiar or cantrip book instead.</p><p></p><p>Lastly, lets talk snap shots. Optimization isn't about just level 20 characters, unless you're starting off at level 20. We need to consider how your character is going to function at each level, and if they're up to par with other characters. Now, 11 levels in Shadow Monk followed by 3 in Rogue is not bad. +7 average damage per turn in exchange for giving up proficiency in all saving throws is not a bad trade. However, if we do level 11 Shadow Monk with the six from Warlock? I can tell you right now that you'll be falling behind others in terms of damage and ability. You'll be losing several features as well as an ASI/feat than if you just went to 17th level Shadow Monk. Heck, level 17 Shadow Monk lets you make a reaction attack for free almost every turn, which fixes your action economy issue and adds fair amount of damage since Sneak Attack applies to reaction attacks as well as regular attacks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 7252106, member: 6786252"] Well, first thing we need to do is talk about shadow elf. That's from Kobald Press, not something most of us here are familiar with, so its impossible for us to judge it. I'm going to assume we're looking at a +WIS race. If not, then right then I'm going to stop you and suggest a race that does give it. The Rogue subclass you're talking about is available free here: [url]http://guidetohomebrew.blogspot.com/p/dark-arts-players.html[/url] Might want to edit that into your main post so everyone can see it and be on the same page. Then, lets consider action economy. The Shadow Monk is a warrior class that makes heavy use of its bonus action - not just for Shadow Step, but any default KI action. Rogue's Cunning Action and Severed Shadow is also competing here. If you use Hex from warlock, that's another. At most, you want two bonus actions you rely on. This is over the top, and too many dead levels. Meanwhile? You have almost nothing that is involving using up your reaction - just misty escape, and that's just once per rest; that leaves several rounds with nothing to do. That's not that great. Pact of the Blade does nothing for your PC. You can already use weapons, and Thirsting Blade doesn't stack with Extra Attack. Both abilities just allow you to attack twice instead of once when you take the Attack Action. Fighter levels 11 and 20 are the only exception to this, because they flat out say "third" and "fourth" attacks. Every other feature says "two attacks." You're effectively investing 6 levels in warlock for Misty Escape, Blink, and Devils' Sight. That's too many levels for too little benefit; at best, three levels and drop misty escape. Think about getting a familiar or cantrip book instead. Lastly, lets talk snap shots. Optimization isn't about just level 20 characters, unless you're starting off at level 20. We need to consider how your character is going to function at each level, and if they're up to par with other characters. Now, 11 levels in Shadow Monk followed by 3 in Rogue is not bad. +7 average damage per turn in exchange for giving up proficiency in all saving throws is not a bad trade. However, if we do level 11 Shadow Monk with the six from Warlock? I can tell you right now that you'll be falling behind others in terms of damage and ability. You'll be losing several features as well as an ASI/feat than if you just went to 17th level Shadow Monk. Heck, level 17 Shadow Monk lets you make a reaction attack for free almost every turn, which fixes your action economy issue and adds fair amount of damage since Sneak Attack applies to reaction attacks as well as regular attacks. [/QUOTE]
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