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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Research metamagicked spells?
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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 277462" data-attributes="member: 141"><p>It seems to me that most metamagicked spells are weaker than spells of their spellslot level. It also seems that certain feats are used with just one or two spells at most. The wizard might sonically substitute and empower a fireball, but that's his main damage spell. Why should he spend two feats, when he could just research a 5th level spell? Even if he has to research higher level versions of cat's grace and fox's cunning or whatever, it is probably a wise investment considering the usefulness of feats.</p><p></p><p>Take that empowered fireball. It takes up a 5th level spell slot. 5th level spells automatically have a base save DC of 15 + Int modifier, as compared to 13 + Int modifier. And their damage caps are generally 15 dice, not 10 dice. And there are nifty extra features (delayed blast fireball, for instance, includes the effect of a "delay" metamagic feat- which is worth +3 spellslots). </p><p></p><p>Say we make a soundball (20' radius) that does 1d6 + 1 hp damage per level of caster (max 15d6 +15). Wouldn't that be a reasonable 5th level spell? At 10th level this "greater soundball" would do an average of 45 hp of damage. The empowered, sonically substituted fireball would do 52.5 hp; a little better. But the gap gets closed within a few levels. At 15th level the greater soundball would do 67.5 hp damage. That's significantly beyond the empowered fireball, and within spitting distance of a double empowered fireball (70 hp). And with a better save DC.</p><p></p><p>Arguably the empower and energy substitution (sonic) metamagic feats are among the best, if not the best, feats for a wizard to take. But I would suggest that it is a better investment for a wizard to develop new spells than to metamagick old ones.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 277462, member: 141"] It seems to me that most metamagicked spells are weaker than spells of their spellslot level. It also seems that certain feats are used with just one or two spells at most. The wizard might sonically substitute and empower a fireball, but that's his main damage spell. Why should he spend two feats, when he could just research a 5th level spell? Even if he has to research higher level versions of cat's grace and fox's cunning or whatever, it is probably a wise investment considering the usefulness of feats. Take that empowered fireball. It takes up a 5th level spell slot. 5th level spells automatically have a base save DC of 15 + Int modifier, as compared to 13 + Int modifier. And their damage caps are generally 15 dice, not 10 dice. And there are nifty extra features (delayed blast fireball, for instance, includes the effect of a "delay" metamagic feat- which is worth +3 spellslots). Say we make a soundball (20' radius) that does 1d6 + 1 hp damage per level of caster (max 15d6 +15). Wouldn't that be a reasonable 5th level spell? At 10th level this "greater soundball" would do an average of 45 hp of damage. The empowered, sonically substituted fireball would do 52.5 hp; a little better. But the gap gets closed within a few levels. At 15th level the greater soundball would do 67.5 hp damage. That's significantly beyond the empowered fireball, and within spitting distance of a double empowered fireball (70 hp). And with a better save DC. Arguably the empower and energy substitution (sonic) metamagic feats are among the best, if not the best, feats for a wizard to take. But I would suggest that it is a better investment for a wizard to develop new spells than to metamagick old ones. [/QUOTE]
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