Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Revamp of the Skills System
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 706911" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>I've brought this topic up before, but I'm a glutton for punishment<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>I dislike the current skills system. There are many reasons, but my main grief with it is crossclass skills. I understand why WOTC did it, certain skills (like spot and listen) are innately superior to many others in most campaigns. By making these crossclass skills, you give certain classes an advantage with certain areas.</p><p></p><p>But in doing so you create an innate problem, a lack of variety. A fighter NEVER has as good a spot as an equal level rogue unless the rogue completely ignores that skill. Nor can a wizard be as good a rider as a paladin. A rogue can never be as knowledgeable as a wizard, even if his background is a researcher.</p><p></p><p>So my solution to this problem is to eliminate the crossclass system all together. Every skill is a class skill with the exception of the restricted skills, those remain restricted (and a few additional ones may become restricted). While I think for most skills every class should have an equal oppurtunity at taking it, I recognize that there are certain skills that should be kept just for certain class (ie disable device for rogues).</p><p></p><p>Now the counterbalance to this radical change, is to change the cost of skills themselves. Right now I'm working on a 3 tier system. There are cheap skills, medium, and expensive. Cheap skills are those skills that are not taken that often in the game, or that are easily replaced by magic. Example, climb, jump, and swim. For those skills, one skill point would buy you 2 ranks.</p><p></p><p>Expensive skills are the extremely useful skills like spot and listen. Those would cost 2 points per rank, or maybe 2 ranks per 3 skills (don't want to get it too complicated). Medium ones are of course those in the middle and cost a one to one ratio.</p><p></p><p>Notice that while the cost of skills has changed, the number of ranks you can possess has not. So while for a fighter, it would cost him nearly all of his skill points to get spot or listen compared to a rogue, he can maintain an equal footing with the rogue if he choose to do that.</p><p></p><p>The final change would be to adjust the skill points of each class. Obviously, since a lot of the typical rogue and ranger skills are now more expensive, the rogue and ranger should get more skills. Other skills numbers would have to be playtested</p><p></p><p>This system presents a few advantages:</p><p></p><p>1) Every class now has more variety in what they can choose, but specialization can be costly. For example, a fighter can now choose to become a good rider, and would cost him skill points as normal. However, that fighter could also decide he wants to gain perceptions, so he focuses on spot and listen instead. However, since these skills are so expensive, his limited skill points would quickly run out, and he may only be able to afford one rank. Still, if that's what the character wants he can.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, a character could gain a lot of milege out of picking up the lesser used skills. Even though climb and jump are quickly replaced by spider climb and fly, they are cheap enough now to pick up- and can come in handy when magic is unavailable.</p><p></p><p>2) It gives the DM more options. Now, that fighter near the wall, could surprise the party with his expert vision, after all that's all he trains for. The local cleric could become quite a store of knowledges. The evil wizard suddenly jumps on a horse, ducks behind it for cover, and runs past the party whose jaws are on the floor.</p><p></p><p>3) It makes picking skills easier for classes. For many of us vetereans at the game, we instantly know which skills are class and crossclass for which classes. But for newer players, this can take some getting used to, and can be confusing. But its relatively easy to learn "spot is 2 skill points-always. Climb is 1/2 skill point per rank-always."</p><p></p><p>I'm thinking of instituting this in my campaign. What do you guys think? IT needs a fair amount of playtesting to get it tweaked properly but I think it could work and work well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 706911, member: 5889"] I've brought this topic up before, but I'm a glutton for punishment:) I dislike the current skills system. There are many reasons, but my main grief with it is crossclass skills. I understand why WOTC did it, certain skills (like spot and listen) are innately superior to many others in most campaigns. By making these crossclass skills, you give certain classes an advantage with certain areas. But in doing so you create an innate problem, a lack of variety. A fighter NEVER has as good a spot as an equal level rogue unless the rogue completely ignores that skill. Nor can a wizard be as good a rider as a paladin. A rogue can never be as knowledgeable as a wizard, even if his background is a researcher. So my solution to this problem is to eliminate the crossclass system all together. Every skill is a class skill with the exception of the restricted skills, those remain restricted (and a few additional ones may become restricted). While I think for most skills every class should have an equal oppurtunity at taking it, I recognize that there are certain skills that should be kept just for certain class (ie disable device for rogues). Now the counterbalance to this radical change, is to change the cost of skills themselves. Right now I'm working on a 3 tier system. There are cheap skills, medium, and expensive. Cheap skills are those skills that are not taken that often in the game, or that are easily replaced by magic. Example, climb, jump, and swim. For those skills, one skill point would buy you 2 ranks. Expensive skills are the extremely useful skills like spot and listen. Those would cost 2 points per rank, or maybe 2 ranks per 3 skills (don't want to get it too complicated). Medium ones are of course those in the middle and cost a one to one ratio. Notice that while the cost of skills has changed, the number of ranks you can possess has not. So while for a fighter, it would cost him nearly all of his skill points to get spot or listen compared to a rogue, he can maintain an equal footing with the rogue if he choose to do that. The final change would be to adjust the skill points of each class. Obviously, since a lot of the typical rogue and ranger skills are now more expensive, the rogue and ranger should get more skills. Other skills numbers would have to be playtested This system presents a few advantages: 1) Every class now has more variety in what they can choose, but specialization can be costly. For example, a fighter can now choose to become a good rider, and would cost him skill points as normal. However, that fighter could also decide he wants to gain perceptions, so he focuses on spot and listen instead. However, since these skills are so expensive, his limited skill points would quickly run out, and he may only be able to afford one rank. Still, if that's what the character wants he can. On the other hand, a character could gain a lot of milege out of picking up the lesser used skills. Even though climb and jump are quickly replaced by spider climb and fly, they are cheap enough now to pick up- and can come in handy when magic is unavailable. 2) It gives the DM more options. Now, that fighter near the wall, could surprise the party with his expert vision, after all that's all he trains for. The local cleric could become quite a store of knowledges. The evil wizard suddenly jumps on a horse, ducks behind it for cover, and runs past the party whose jaws are on the floor. 3) It makes picking skills easier for classes. For many of us vetereans at the game, we instantly know which skills are class and crossclass for which classes. But for newer players, this can take some getting used to, and can be confusing. But its relatively easy to learn "spot is 2 skill points-always. Climb is 1/2 skill point per rank-always." I'm thinking of instituting this in my campaign. What do you guys think? IT needs a fair amount of playtesting to get it tweaked properly but I think it could work and work well. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Revamp of the Skills System
Top