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Reversing the order of narrative and dice (and musings on Star Wars: Edge of the Empire)
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6301338" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>The results are that stormtrooper took three hits. That happens narratively. The ongoing story now involves that stormtrooper having taken those hits. The game leaves it up to you to determine how those hits happened, but in no case can you describe a situation where those hits didn't happen -- you are obligated to tell a story that conforms with how the mechanics have already determined the event played out. </p><p></p><p>That can be a fun game, but it's not typically the kind of game I'm looking for from my RPGs, because I don't like how that disconnects my choices as a player from my character's choices. Part of the fun I get of RPGs is that they scratch my acting itch, that it's fun to <em>inhabit</em> these roles, and this kind of mechanic weakens that fun. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, but <em>what happens</em> doesn't depend on the actions you choose. It depends on the result the rules determined. That's part of what I mean about agency, about the "driver" of the narrative: I prefer my in-character player choices to determine what the mechanics need to resolve, rather than having to have them fit the mechanical result determined independent of my in-character player choices. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, RW's description and the OP centered on the "reversing" of that order, so mostly I was discussing the thread topic and the way the game is apparently designed to be played, rather than thinking about all the infinite possible things one might hypothetically do with these apparent design intents (such as ignore them). If the presumption of the game is that one rolls and then narrates the outcome of those rolls, that's the mechanics driving the action, regardless of the fact that one could hypothetically not do that maybe. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, it's cinematic, for sure. It makes the player think about directing the scene from a voyeur standpoint rather than simply controlling their character. Which, you know, not necessarily out of character for a game based on a film. It's just not going to scratch the itch of anyone hoping for a more intimate mindset, though. Less a game of <em>playing a role</em> and more a game of <em>telling a story</em>. Which is a different kind of fun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6301338, member: 2067"] The results are that stormtrooper took three hits. That happens narratively. The ongoing story now involves that stormtrooper having taken those hits. The game leaves it up to you to determine how those hits happened, but in no case can you describe a situation where those hits didn't happen -- you are obligated to tell a story that conforms with how the mechanics have already determined the event played out. That can be a fun game, but it's not typically the kind of game I'm looking for from my RPGs, because I don't like how that disconnects my choices as a player from my character's choices. Part of the fun I get of RPGs is that they scratch my acting itch, that it's fun to [I]inhabit[/i] these roles, and this kind of mechanic weakens that fun. Ah, but [I]what happens[/I] doesn't depend on the actions you choose. It depends on the result the rules determined. That's part of what I mean about agency, about the "driver" of the narrative: I prefer my in-character player choices to determine what the mechanics need to resolve, rather than having to have them fit the mechanical result determined independent of my in-character player choices. Well, RW's description and the OP centered on the "reversing" of that order, so mostly I was discussing the thread topic and the way the game is apparently designed to be played, rather than thinking about all the infinite possible things one might hypothetically do with these apparent design intents (such as ignore them). If the presumption of the game is that one rolls and then narrates the outcome of those rolls, that's the mechanics driving the action, regardless of the fact that one could hypothetically not do that maybe. Well, it's cinematic, for sure. It makes the player think about directing the scene from a voyeur standpoint rather than simply controlling their character. Which, you know, not necessarily out of character for a game based on a film. It's just not going to scratch the itch of anyone hoping for a more intimate mindset, though. Less a game of [I]playing a role[/I] and more a game of [I]telling a story[/I]. Which is a different kind of fun. [/QUOTE]
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Reversing the order of narrative and dice (and musings on Star Wars: Edge of the Empire)
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