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Revised and rebalanced dragons for 1e AD&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 7487794" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>Well it appears this thread's been quite busy since I last visited. It appears the debate is focusing around breath weapon damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How about scaling it to age AND hit dice.</p><p></p><p>If the damage was, say, 1d6 per age category plus 1 per HD then dragons with different HD but the same ages or vica-versa will have different breath weapon damages.</p><p></p><p>Let's see what some of those numbers would look like:</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>Size</strong><br /> Small White<br /> White<br /> Black<br /> Green<br /> Blue<br /> Red<br /> Huge Red</td><td><strong>Hatchling</strong><br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+2 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 5½</span>)<br /> 1d6+2 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 5½</span>)<br /> 1d6+2 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 5½</span>)</td><td><strong>Adult</strong><br /> 5d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 22½</span>)<br /> 5d6+6 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 23½</span>)<br /> 5d6+7 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 24½</span>)<br /> 5d6+8 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 25½</span>)<br /> 5d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 27½</span>)<br /> 5d6+11 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 28½</span>)<br /> 5d6+12 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 29½</span>)</td><td><strong>Great Wyrm</strong><br /> 10d6+11 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 46</span>)<br /> 10d6+13 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 48</span>)<br /> 10d6+15 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 50</span>)<br /> 10d6+17 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 52</span>)<br /> 10d6+20 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 55</span>)<br /> 10d6+22 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 57</span>)<br /> 10d6+24 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 59</span>)</td></tr></table><p></p><p>Hmm… I think I might prefer a bit more randomness than that. Maybe have the random element derive from the HD rather than the age? Let's try 1d6 per 2 hit dice (rounding up) plus 1 per age category?</p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><strong>Size</strong><br /> Small White<br /> White<br /> Black<br /> Green<br /> Blue<br /> Red<br /> Huge Red</td><td><strong>Hatchling</strong><br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)<br /> 1d6+1 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 4½</span>)</td><td><strong>Adult</strong><br /> 3d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 15½</span>)<br /> 3d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 15½</span>)<br /> 4d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 19</span>)<br /> 4d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 19</span>)<br /> 5d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 22½</span>)<br /> 5d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 22½</span>)<br /> 6d6+5 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 26</span>)</td><td><strong>Great Wyrm</strong><br /> 6d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 31</span>)<br /> 7d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 34.5</span>)<br /> 8d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 38</span>)<br /> 9d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 41½</span>)<br /> 10d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 45</span>)<br /> 11d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 48½</span>)<br /> 12d6+10 (<span style="font-size: 9px">av. 52</span>)</td></tr></table><p></p><p>That looks like it has potential.</p><p></p><p>I am tempted to make it ½d6 per Hit Dice so, for example, the Small White Dragon does 2d6+1d3+5 (average 14) as an Adult and 5d6+1d3+10 as a Great Wyrm (average 29.5) just so every age/HD of dragon would do somewhat different damage.</p><p></p><p>That seemed a bit too fiddly though.</p><p></p><p>Using 1d3 per Hit Dice would give similar numbers but I don't much care for using so many small dice.</p><p></p><p>Alternatively, just add a "Breath Weapons" column besides the natural attacks on the Dragon Damage table and add a note that you add the age category on top of it. So 11 HD Dragons might have, say, "breath 2d10" on the table resulting in an 11 HD Adult's breath weapon doing 2d10+5 damage and an 11 HD Great Wyrm 2d10+10.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, I would rather the scaling was a bit smoother for the bite/claw/wing/tail damage so it didn't ramp up so steeply for the high HD dragons.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and having the tail do less damage than the claws feels off to me. I'd prefer it to be equal to or slightly less than the bite in damage-dealing capacity. Something more like the standard 2E AD&D Dragons' tail slap which did double claw damage, for example.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 7487794, member: 57383"] Well it appears this thread's been quite busy since I last visited. It appears the debate is focusing around breath weapon damage. How about scaling it to age AND hit dice. If the damage was, say, 1d6 per age category plus 1 per HD then dragons with different HD but the same ages or vica-versa will have different breath weapon damages. Let's see what some of those numbers would look like: [TABLE="width: 420"] [TR] [TD][B]Size[/B] Small White White Black Green Blue Red Huge Red[/TD] [TD][B]Hatchling[/B] 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+2 ([SIZE=1]av. 5½[/SIZE]) 1d6+2 ([SIZE=1]av. 5½[/SIZE]) 1d6+2 ([SIZE=1]av. 5½[/SIZE])[/TD] [TD][B]Adult[/B] 5d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 22½[/SIZE]) 5d6+6 ([SIZE=1]av. 23½[/SIZE]) 5d6+7 ([SIZE=1]av. 24½[/SIZE]) 5d6+8 ([SIZE=1]av. 25½[/SIZE]) 5d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 27½[/SIZE]) 5d6+11 ([SIZE=1]av. 28½[/SIZE]) 5d6+12 ([SIZE=1]av. 29½[/SIZE])[/TD] [TD][B]Great Wyrm[/B] 10d6+11 ([SIZE=1]av. 46[/SIZE]) 10d6+13 ([SIZE=1]av. 48[/SIZE]) 10d6+15 ([SIZE=1]av. 50[/SIZE]) 10d6+17 ([SIZE=1]av. 52[/SIZE]) 10d6+20 ([SIZE=1]av. 55[/SIZE]) 10d6+22 ([SIZE=1]av. 57[/SIZE]) 10d6+24 ([SIZE=1]av. 59[/SIZE])[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Hmm… I think I might prefer a bit more randomness than that. Maybe have the random element derive from the HD rather than the age? Let's try 1d6 per 2 hit dice (rounding up) plus 1 per age category? [TABLE="width: 420"] [TR] [TD][B]Size[/B] Small White White Black Green Blue Red Huge Red[/TD] [TD][B]Hatchling[/B] 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE]) 1d6+1 ([SIZE=1]av. 4½[/SIZE])[/TD] [TD][B]Adult[/B] 3d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 15½[/SIZE]) 3d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 15½[/SIZE]) 4d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 19[/SIZE]) 4d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 19[/SIZE]) 5d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 22½[/SIZE]) 5d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 22½[/SIZE]) 6d6+5 ([SIZE=1]av. 26[/SIZE])[/TD] [TD][B]Great Wyrm[/B] 6d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 31[/SIZE]) 7d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 34.5[/SIZE]) 8d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 38[/SIZE]) 9d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 41½[/SIZE]) 10d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 45[/SIZE]) 11d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 48½[/SIZE]) 12d6+10 ([SIZE=1]av. 52[/SIZE])[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] That looks like it has potential. I am tempted to make it ½d6 per Hit Dice so, for example, the Small White Dragon does 2d6+1d3+5 (average 14) as an Adult and 5d6+1d3+10 as a Great Wyrm (average 29.5) just so every age/HD of dragon would do somewhat different damage. That seemed a bit too fiddly though. Using 1d3 per Hit Dice would give similar numbers but I don't much care for using so many small dice. Alternatively, just add a "Breath Weapons" column besides the natural attacks on the Dragon Damage table and add a note that you add the age category on top of it. So 11 HD Dragons might have, say, "breath 2d10" on the table resulting in an 11 HD Adult's breath weapon doing 2d10+5 damage and an 11 HD Great Wyrm 2d10+10. Incidentally, I would rather the scaling was a bit smoother for the bite/claw/wing/tail damage so it didn't ramp up so steeply for the high HD dragons. Oh, and having the tail do less damage than the claws feels off to me. I'd prefer it to be equal to or slightly less than the bite in damage-dealing capacity. Something more like the standard 2E AD&D Dragons' tail slap which did double claw damage, for example. [/QUOTE]
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