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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7484153" data-attributes="member: 2525"><p>Thanks for going back through the thread I think you caught most of that discussion. </p><p></p><p>Yes with the fighting style you'd be able to use a bonus action to give any allied adjacent animal an attack. Once you became a beast master, you could also give up an attack of yours to give them an attack, which would allow the beast to make two attacks that round, but of course you've lost both your bonus action and an attack of your attack action. I think that works pretty well. Yes, the bonus action attack is a "cheaper" cost than the attack action attack, but then you gave up other fighting styles to get it so I don't see an issue. It might not be a perfect patch, but it's a pretty darn good one, and better than what we have right now, and saves altering the entire sub-class (which WOTC is committed to not doing). I put it in the "good enough" category. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right this is getting back to those spells I mentioned. those spells for the most part <strong>require a friendly beast be nearby</strong> (you touch a friendly beast with most of them). So it's already <strong>assumed you're making or otherwise accessing friendly beasts around you</strong> from creatures who likely do not start out as friendly. You're probably using your skills - and that's the biggest key to changing the attitude of animals to being friendly, a skill check. It might be a handle animal check, it might be a nature check to know something about the animal, it might be a check to track an animal, it might be a persuasion check if you can communicate directly by use of a spell or ability. But the game assumes you're accessing friendly beasts already with those spells and skills. </p><p></p><p>There are spells to locate animals, spells to talk to animals, telepathically link with animals, see through an animals eyes and ears, charm animals, and a skill to persuade animals to become friendly. So they either make an animal friendly, or assume you routinely access friendly animals. </p><p></p><p>Once you have a friendly animal, there are further spells to do special things with these friendly animals like get them to deliver a message for you, etc.. So the game does assume you can and likely do access friendly animals if that's the kind of character you're wanting to play. </p><p></p><p>There are other classes which access friendly animals as well. Some Warlocks can speak with animals at will. A Totem Barbarian gets some abilities with beasts. A Nature Cleric can charm animals with Channel Divinity. Of course Druids get plenty of animal related spells and abilities. You can buy animals, and the player's handbook lists these: Camel, Donkey, Mule, Draft Horse, Elephant, Mastiff, Pony, Riding Horse, Warhorse. It also suggests you can potentially access even more animals and mounts.</p><p></p><p>So the game does assume you can and likely do access friendly animals if that's the kind of character you're wanting to play. Which was my point.</p><p></p><p>Will a lot of people be interested in this fighting style if they don't plan on becoming a beast master? Probably not. But, they might. Particularly if they are themselves or if they are playing with a Nature Cleric, a Druid, a Warlock with Beast Speech, or possibly a Barbarian Totem Warrior, you might want this fighting style. You'd want to coordinate other friendly animals being around the party, but yes it has its purposes outside the beastmaster sub-class. But yes, of course it's primary use is for the beastmaster sub-class...which is the topic we were discussing. </p><p></p><p>As for the discussion about people not wanting to treat companions as disposable as being too "old school" I disagree. The Ranger is no longer required to be a "good" alignment, like they often were in prior editions. I think it's actually rather "new school" to be a neutral or even evil aligned Ranger and treat companions as disposable things which you renew each 8 hour long rest as needed. But even if you view it as old school, I don't think it's that much of an unappealing concept to a lot of people. As I mentioned earlier, I appreciate the irony that I am a vegetarian in real life and I am the one advocating that approach, but others agreed it had it's appeal. If it's not for you, that's fine. But I don't think it's as anathema to as many people as you seem to think it is. I don't think the game has "moved on" from that concept, and it may in fact be moving closer to it these days.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 7484153, member: 2525"] Thanks for going back through the thread I think you caught most of that discussion. Yes with the fighting style you'd be able to use a bonus action to give any allied adjacent animal an attack. Once you became a beast master, you could also give up an attack of yours to give them an attack, which would allow the beast to make two attacks that round, but of course you've lost both your bonus action and an attack of your attack action. I think that works pretty well. Yes, the bonus action attack is a "cheaper" cost than the attack action attack, but then you gave up other fighting styles to get it so I don't see an issue. It might not be a perfect patch, but it's a pretty darn good one, and better than what we have right now, and saves altering the entire sub-class (which WOTC is committed to not doing). I put it in the "good enough" category. Right this is getting back to those spells I mentioned. those spells for the most part [B]require a friendly beast be nearby[/B] (you touch a friendly beast with most of them). So it's already [B]assumed you're making or otherwise accessing friendly beasts around you[/B] from creatures who likely do not start out as friendly. You're probably using your skills - and that's the biggest key to changing the attitude of animals to being friendly, a skill check. It might be a handle animal check, it might be a nature check to know something about the animal, it might be a check to track an animal, it might be a persuasion check if you can communicate directly by use of a spell or ability. But the game assumes you're accessing friendly beasts already with those spells and skills. There are spells to locate animals, spells to talk to animals, telepathically link with animals, see through an animals eyes and ears, charm animals, and a skill to persuade animals to become friendly. So they either make an animal friendly, or assume you routinely access friendly animals. Once you have a friendly animal, there are further spells to do special things with these friendly animals like get them to deliver a message for you, etc.. So the game does assume you can and likely do access friendly animals if that's the kind of character you're wanting to play. There are other classes which access friendly animals as well. Some Warlocks can speak with animals at will. A Totem Barbarian gets some abilities with beasts. A Nature Cleric can charm animals with Channel Divinity. Of course Druids get plenty of animal related spells and abilities. You can buy animals, and the player's handbook lists these: Camel, Donkey, Mule, Draft Horse, Elephant, Mastiff, Pony, Riding Horse, Warhorse. It also suggests you can potentially access even more animals and mounts. So the game does assume you can and likely do access friendly animals if that's the kind of character you're wanting to play. Which was my point. Will a lot of people be interested in this fighting style if they don't plan on becoming a beast master? Probably not. But, they might. Particularly if they are themselves or if they are playing with a Nature Cleric, a Druid, a Warlock with Beast Speech, or possibly a Barbarian Totem Warrior, you might want this fighting style. You'd want to coordinate other friendly animals being around the party, but yes it has its purposes outside the beastmaster sub-class. But yes, of course it's primary use is for the beastmaster sub-class...which is the topic we were discussing. As for the discussion about people not wanting to treat companions as disposable as being too "old school" I disagree. The Ranger is no longer required to be a "good" alignment, like they often were in prior editions. I think it's actually rather "new school" to be a neutral or even evil aligned Ranger and treat companions as disposable things which you renew each 8 hour long rest as needed. But even if you view it as old school, I don't think it's that much of an unappealing concept to a lot of people. As I mentioned earlier, I appreciate the irony that I am a vegetarian in real life and I am the one advocating that approach, but others agreed it had it's appeal. If it's not for you, that's fine. But I don't think it's as anathema to as many people as you seem to think it is. I don't think the game has "moved on" from that concept, and it may in fact be moving closer to it these days. [/QUOTE]
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