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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7039010" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Good post Nagol and I'm in general agreement (with the term "suffers" meaning that it inhibits certain play expectations). The only thing I'll say is that the second part is mitigated in degree. Expansion of breadth (access to what might be considered "poached" abilities of other classes) via the stunting system is (a) gated behind a Skill Check (typically at the Medium DC), (b) gated behind the present fictional positioning (you aren't triggering an AoE stalactite collapse under the open sky!), and (c) the reality that while your expression gained (damage + effect) is going to be beneficial, it generally won't be tricked out/synergized with PC build resources. </p><p></p><p>A, B, and C aside, (i) the Medium DC is typically attainable at a very high rate (75 % or more at a trained skill), (ii) failure of the Skill Check will only result in something like CA against you UEOYNT, (iii) the ease-of-use/transparency of stunting adjudication, and (iv) the genre logic + "say yes" and "interactive battlefield" principles of 4e will typically open up the fictional positioning to going with reasonable stunting action declarations.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm going to do some musing myself for architecture currently available in 4e to accomplish things on your list (paying heed to your stipulations at the top).</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Additional Magic Items</em></strong> - The current Artifact system covers this one. This can be extended further (with the understanding that it will impact the system's encounter budgeting precision). Consumables are typically purchased with the expectant level -1 wealth that PCs are assumed to be carrying (eg 5000 for an 11th level character).</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Granted powers</em></strong> - As long as this one is about breadth/scope (x-axis growth) rather than focus/synergy (y-axis growth), this one doesn't impact the encounter budgeting in a particularly notable way. Companion characters increase breadth/scope and they don't create dysfunctional play. However, if you're inclined to give out some y-axis stuff either (a) understand it will impact encounter budgeting (and be ok with it) or (b) use the PCs level-1 wealth as the currency for it (although my guess is that is eeking into the territory of your stipulations).</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Allies</em></strong> - Companion system covers this one nicely. You can offset the encounter budget for the Companion's contribution or not (not given what I believe you're looking for).</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Social perquisites</em></strong> - 5e's Background Traits had forebears in 4e's Themes and Epic Destinies (Paragon Paths don't have a lot of it). For instance:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>and things like:</p><p></p><p>- Marshals of Letherna are given command over the upper echelons of the Raven Queen’s entourage.</p><p>- Darklords see the Shadowfell manifest a realm suited to them.</p><p></p><p>Things like this (typically to a much lesser degree than those of Epic Destinies) naturally accrue in the course of play. They may or may not be formalized (certainly the latter is preferable to me), but they still serve as a form of currency for PCs to call upon to influence GMs in their framing of conflicts (or transitioning of scenes) or to invoke as mechanized assets for conflicts to come.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7039010, member: 6696971"] Good post Nagol and I'm in general agreement (with the term "suffers" meaning that it inhibits certain play expectations). The only thing I'll say is that the second part is mitigated in degree. Expansion of breadth (access to what might be considered "poached" abilities of other classes) via the stunting system is (a) gated behind a Skill Check (typically at the Medium DC), (b) gated behind the present fictional positioning (you aren't triggering an AoE stalactite collapse under the open sky!), and (c) the reality that while your expression gained (damage + effect) is going to be beneficial, it generally won't be tricked out/synergized with PC build resources. A, B, and C aside, (i) the Medium DC is typically attainable at a very high rate (75 % or more at a trained skill), (ii) failure of the Skill Check will only result in something like CA against you UEOYNT, (iii) the ease-of-use/transparency of stunting adjudication, and (iv) the genre logic + "say yes" and "interactive battlefield" principles of 4e will typically open up the fictional positioning to going with reasonable stunting action declarations. I'm going to do some musing myself for architecture currently available in 4e to accomplish things on your list (paying heed to your stipulations at the top). [B][I]Additional Magic Items[/I][/B] - The current Artifact system covers this one. This can be extended further (with the understanding that it will impact the system's encounter budgeting precision). Consumables are typically purchased with the expectant level -1 wealth that PCs are assumed to be carrying (eg 5000 for an 11th level character). [B][I]Granted powers[/I][/B] - As long as this one is about breadth/scope (x-axis growth) rather than focus/synergy (y-axis growth), this one doesn't impact the encounter budgeting in a particularly notable way. Companion characters increase breadth/scope and they don't create dysfunctional play. However, if you're inclined to give out some y-axis stuff either (a) understand it will impact encounter budgeting (and be ok with it) or (b) use the PCs level-1 wealth as the currency for it (although my guess is that is eeking into the territory of your stipulations). [B][I]Allies[/I][/B] - Companion system covers this one nicely. You can offset the encounter budget for the Companion's contribution or not (not given what I believe you're looking for). [B][I]Social perquisites[/I][/B] - 5e's Background Traits had forebears in 4e's Themes and Epic Destinies (Paragon Paths don't have a lot of it). For instance: and things like: - Marshals of Letherna are given command over the upper echelons of the Raven Queen’s entourage. - Darklords see the Shadowfell manifest a realm suited to them. Things like this (typically to a much lesser degree than those of Epic Destinies) naturally accrue in the course of play. They may or may not be formalized (certainly the latter is preferable to me), but they still serve as a form of currency for PCs to call upon to influence GMs in their framing of conflicts (or transitioning of scenes) or to invoke as mechanized assets for conflicts to come. [/QUOTE]
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