Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Rogue Mastermind Archetype Up, Courtesy of Extra Life
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 7683114" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Because the rules of many games--not just 5e, and not just D&D for that matter--often make future, alternative attempts dramatically harder due to failed previous attempts, even when the two are notionally distinct e.g. failed deception/forgery leads to heightened guard presence. Further, Stealth is almost always even worse than social skill uses: <em>everyone</em> infiltrating has to roll it, and usually must do so multiple times to avoid detection. Iterative probability essentially guarantees that that will fail sooner or later. 5e is ever-so-slightly better about that, since it advocates the use of group checks, but even its rules (from what I can tell) do not really solve the problem of "way, <em>way</em> too many DMs call for <em>too many</em> iterative checks, thus semi-guaranteeing failure."</p><p></p><p>Also, uh, Stealth is actually a Dex skill, so we've kind of circled right back around to "Rogues want Dex."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How and where was this "knowledge" acquired? It is not merely common knowledge who supplies the castle, and if the security is serious enough that notarized documentation is required to enter, I imagine this bribery attempt is going to be difficult...and will <em>still</em> require multiple Stealth checks from the whole party, and group checks don't seem like they would cut it in this case (since the guards need only find *one* hidden stowaway to raise their suspicions to an unacceptable level).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It sounds to me like you've been relatively lucky as far as DMs go. My experience has not been so good--failed attempts at an action have a bad habit of making all other means of addressing the situation harder, until there are no alternatives left at all (which can be as quick as "you failed your first attempt"). No skill rules I've ever seen--not in 4e, not in 5e--actually address this, <em>particularly</em> the iterated probability issue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 7683114, member: 6790260"] Because the rules of many games--not just 5e, and not just D&D for that matter--often make future, alternative attempts dramatically harder due to failed previous attempts, even when the two are notionally distinct e.g. failed deception/forgery leads to heightened guard presence. Further, Stealth is almost always even worse than social skill uses: [I]everyone[/I] infiltrating has to roll it, and usually must do so multiple times to avoid detection. Iterative probability essentially guarantees that that will fail sooner or later. 5e is ever-so-slightly better about that, since it advocates the use of group checks, but even its rules (from what I can tell) do not really solve the problem of "way, [I]way[/I] too many DMs call for [I]too many[/I] iterative checks, thus semi-guaranteeing failure." Also, uh, Stealth is actually a Dex skill, so we've kind of circled right back around to "Rogues want Dex." How and where was this "knowledge" acquired? It is not merely common knowledge who supplies the castle, and if the security is serious enough that notarized documentation is required to enter, I imagine this bribery attempt is going to be difficult...and will [I]still[/I] require multiple Stealth checks from the whole party, and group checks don't seem like they would cut it in this case (since the guards need only find *one* hidden stowaway to raise their suspicions to an unacceptable level). It sounds to me like you've been relatively lucky as far as DMs go. My experience has not been so good--failed attempts at an action have a bad habit of making all other means of addressing the situation harder, until there are no alternatives left at all (which can be as quick as "you failed your first attempt"). No skill rules I've ever seen--not in 4e, not in 5e--actually address this, [I]particularly[/I] the iterated probability issue. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Rogue Mastermind Archetype Up, Courtesy of Extra Life
Top