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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7726780" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>It's not meta-gaming if doesn't take place during the game. Choosing to play a particular module is no different than choosing to watch a particular movie. The events that unfold <em>during</em> play are not influenced by the out-of-game decision <em>to</em> play that. All of the events <em>within</em> the module are still determined by <em>in-game</em> factors rather than DM whim.</p><p>If the fate of the ogre's dog (or the ogre's history in general) depends on whether there's an elf in the part or a dwarf in the party, then that's meta-gaming and it's bad, because events in the past cannot depend on who shows up here in the present. It's not necessarily an instance of meta-gaming which thwarts agency - not <em>all</em> meta-gaming necessarily thwarts player agency - but it's still meta-gaming and therefore bad.</p><p></p><p>The particular meta-gaming which thwarts agency is when the DM decides the outcome of your action, or which sort of enemies should show up, based on who the PCs are or what the DM <em>wants</em> to happen. As soon as the DM decides to throw a level 13 encounter at the party, because you're level 11 and they want to challenge you, then <em>that</em> is meta-gaming which takes away player agency. When the DM decides that an enemy with 60hp dies after taking 50 damage, because it would be more dramatic, then <em>that</em> takes away player agency. It's saying that <em>who</em> the PCs are and <em>what</em> the PCs do don't matter, because the DM is going to alter the hidden unknowns to compensate.</p><p>Blame the game, not the players. If a group with fifty combined years of play experience could not decipher their hidden message, then they must have done a terrible job of communicating it to that audience.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7726780, member: 6775031"] It's not meta-gaming if doesn't take place during the game. Choosing to play a particular module is no different than choosing to watch a particular movie. The events that unfold [I]during[/I] play are not influenced by the out-of-game decision [I]to[/I] play that. All of the events [I]within[/I] the module are still determined by [I]in-game[/I] factors rather than DM whim. If the fate of the ogre's dog (or the ogre's history in general) depends on whether there's an elf in the part or a dwarf in the party, then that's meta-gaming and it's bad, because events in the past cannot depend on who shows up here in the present. It's not necessarily an instance of meta-gaming which thwarts agency - not [I]all[/I] meta-gaming necessarily thwarts player agency - but it's still meta-gaming and therefore bad. The particular meta-gaming which thwarts agency is when the DM decides the outcome of your action, or which sort of enemies should show up, based on who the PCs are or what the DM [I]wants[/I] to happen. As soon as the DM decides to throw a level 13 encounter at the party, because you're level 11 and they want to challenge you, then [I]that[/I] is meta-gaming which takes away player agency. When the DM decides that an enemy with 60hp dies after taking 50 damage, because it would be more dramatic, then [I]that[/I] takes away player agency. It's saying that [I]who[/I] the PCs are and [I]what[/I] the PCs do don't matter, because the DM is going to alter the hidden unknowns to compensate. Blame the game, not the players. If a group with fifty combined years of play experience could not decipher their hidden message, then they must have done a terrible job of communicating it to that audience. [/QUOTE]
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