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RPG Evolution: How a RPG Changed the Star Wars Universe
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7705975" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Perhaps. Talking with people we disagree with about why we believe things is how we get out of bubbles. But I suspect that a 'bubble' is only part of the problem here. The bigger problem is that people who have a subjective experience ("I enjoyed it") want to make that an objective truth ("It was a well made movie.") Incidentally, I enjoyed much of TFA - especially the first half of the movie - but still think that it was very poorly made (with caveats mentioned earlier in the thread) and that on the whole it's a piece of crap with a second half which though flashy and fun at times is more brain dead than a Michael Bey Transformers movie and which does not bear thinking about at all and gets worse the more you think about it. </p><p></p><p>I remember my friends having much the same experience you describe when "Braveheart" came out. My friends loved the movie. I was astounded. I thought it was one of the worst directed movies I'd ever seen, filled with pointless flashbacks, scenes that went nowhere, bad writing, and one of the most pointlessly protracted death scenes of all time. I adored Mel as an actor, but how could they love that piece of crap? We agreed to disagree. A couple of years passed. Later, one evening while we meeting to game, some of them had Braveheart on video and they were gushing over it. I noticed however that the way that they were watching Braveheart was fast forwarding to a battle scene, watching it, and then fast forwarding to the next one. So I said, "Have any of you actually watched the whole movie again since it came out?" The answer was, "No." So I said, "Ok, I can understand that you love the battle scenes. They are far from historically accurate, but we seldom get a big screen spectacle of a battle and the battle scenes are great cinematic set pieces. I understand why you are mentally editing out most of the movie, but watch the movie as a whole again and think about the following..." The next week they were like, "You know... I can see what you see now."</p><p></p><p>I suspect TFA is much the same way. One the excitement wears off and you get a chance to pore over it, you may still love the movie (and that's fine, I'm a huge fan of 'Attack of the Killer Tomatoes', 'Creator', 'Blood of Heroes' and tons of movies I'd never defend as great movies), but I think it's flaws will be more evident. At least you agree with the obvious fact, that there is nothing close to an original story structure. And I agree that it is a sort of homage, but I think that R1 works much better as homage while being far more original. I also think that R1 makes the original trilogy better, that R1 makes TFA more laughable, and that TFA makes the original trilogy worse. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Can you point to one particular scene where you thought the acting from the new actors was really good? Because there are some guys out there doing frame by frame analysis of facial expressions (with accompanying laugh track) that are just side splitting. What emotion is the actor trying to convey in this scene? What is the characters motivation for that emotion? The first meeting between Rey and the Tie fighter guy is really bad. Basic analysis like. There are also some really bad examples of the green screen work not matching up with the CGI, like when the X-Wing pilot guy gets captured and he does this huge impressed take at Star Destroyer hanger bay which is just a Star Destroyer hanger bay - not something that a pilot would be impressed by and not exactly a space station the size of a planet. Seriously, TFA's acting was so bad that it makes a good episode of MST2K.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't think of a scene that you are thinking of. Krennic maybe? He came off a little too hammy... but then he's the villain, and he did have a few good scenes. He's not nearly as bad as whatever the name of that first order General guy was - now that was bad acting. I will say that the movie suffered from a lack of a clear three act structure compared to say 'A New Hope' or 'Empire'. The first third bounces around far too many sets and is very disjointed. It's not that the writing in that area is necessarily bad, and I understand the purpose of each shot, but it did strike me as something that could have used a clearer narrative arc. But compared to TFA, just about the time TFA was starting to fall apart and I was feeling vaguely bored, R1 was just gearing up. It's much better to have consistent rising action and tension, and R1 has that and gets tightly scripted in about the middle of the second act. TFA on the other hand is all down hill from the introduction of Han Solo, and only has nostalgia to haltingly carry it along from then on. Oh and the fridge logic is painful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For me, I was hovering around a 6/10 until the speech by Cassian Andor that sets the stage for the third act. That speech tied together his character and his story arc up to that point, really tied the movie together philosophically, and opened the third act on a great note. And while there were parts of the battle that felt a bit false and hollow to me and I really would love to see (even) more of a GM's/gamers mentality to scripting a battle, on the whole I thought it was far and away the best Star Wars since the original trilogy, and indeed as good as the original trilogy. 7.5/10, and I might give it an 8 on a rewatch. TFA I came out feeling 4/10, but the more I thought about the worse it got, and I now would put at a 2/10 - just above Dragonheart, Braveheart, The Scooby Doo movie and that sort of thing. If you enjoy it, and you want to keep enjoying it, all I can say is don't start analyzing it. If you start picking nits, you will find there isn't anything left.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That I can totally dig.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7705975, member: 4937"] Perhaps. Talking with people we disagree with about why we believe things is how we get out of bubbles. But I suspect that a 'bubble' is only part of the problem here. The bigger problem is that people who have a subjective experience ("I enjoyed it") want to make that an objective truth ("It was a well made movie.") Incidentally, I enjoyed much of TFA - especially the first half of the movie - but still think that it was very poorly made (with caveats mentioned earlier in the thread) and that on the whole it's a piece of crap with a second half which though flashy and fun at times is more brain dead than a Michael Bey Transformers movie and which does not bear thinking about at all and gets worse the more you think about it. I remember my friends having much the same experience you describe when "Braveheart" came out. My friends loved the movie. I was astounded. I thought it was one of the worst directed movies I'd ever seen, filled with pointless flashbacks, scenes that went nowhere, bad writing, and one of the most pointlessly protracted death scenes of all time. I adored Mel as an actor, but how could they love that piece of crap? We agreed to disagree. A couple of years passed. Later, one evening while we meeting to game, some of them had Braveheart on video and they were gushing over it. I noticed however that the way that they were watching Braveheart was fast forwarding to a battle scene, watching it, and then fast forwarding to the next one. So I said, "Have any of you actually watched the whole movie again since it came out?" The answer was, "No." So I said, "Ok, I can understand that you love the battle scenes. They are far from historically accurate, but we seldom get a big screen spectacle of a battle and the battle scenes are great cinematic set pieces. I understand why you are mentally editing out most of the movie, but watch the movie as a whole again and think about the following..." The next week they were like, "You know... I can see what you see now." I suspect TFA is much the same way. One the excitement wears off and you get a chance to pore over it, you may still love the movie (and that's fine, I'm a huge fan of 'Attack of the Killer Tomatoes', 'Creator', 'Blood of Heroes' and tons of movies I'd never defend as great movies), but I think it's flaws will be more evident. At least you agree with the obvious fact, that there is nothing close to an original story structure. And I agree that it is a sort of homage, but I think that R1 works much better as homage while being far more original. I also think that R1 makes the original trilogy better, that R1 makes TFA more laughable, and that TFA makes the original trilogy worse. Can you point to one particular scene where you thought the acting from the new actors was really good? Because there are some guys out there doing frame by frame analysis of facial expressions (with accompanying laugh track) that are just side splitting. What emotion is the actor trying to convey in this scene? What is the characters motivation for that emotion? The first meeting between Rey and the Tie fighter guy is really bad. Basic analysis like. There are also some really bad examples of the green screen work not matching up with the CGI, like when the X-Wing pilot guy gets captured and he does this huge impressed take at Star Destroyer hanger bay which is just a Star Destroyer hanger bay - not something that a pilot would be impressed by and not exactly a space station the size of a planet. Seriously, TFA's acting was so bad that it makes a good episode of MST2K. I can't think of a scene that you are thinking of. Krennic maybe? He came off a little too hammy... but then he's the villain, and he did have a few good scenes. He's not nearly as bad as whatever the name of that first order General guy was - now that was bad acting. I will say that the movie suffered from a lack of a clear three act structure compared to say 'A New Hope' or 'Empire'. The first third bounces around far too many sets and is very disjointed. It's not that the writing in that area is necessarily bad, and I understand the purpose of each shot, but it did strike me as something that could have used a clearer narrative arc. But compared to TFA, just about the time TFA was starting to fall apart and I was feeling vaguely bored, R1 was just gearing up. It's much better to have consistent rising action and tension, and R1 has that and gets tightly scripted in about the middle of the second act. TFA on the other hand is all down hill from the introduction of Han Solo, and only has nostalgia to haltingly carry it along from then on. Oh and the fridge logic is painful. For me, I was hovering around a 6/10 until the speech by Cassian Andor that sets the stage for the third act. That speech tied together his character and his story arc up to that point, really tied the movie together philosophically, and opened the third act on a great note. And while there were parts of the battle that felt a bit false and hollow to me and I really would love to see (even) more of a GM's/gamers mentality to scripting a battle, on the whole I thought it was far and away the best Star Wars since the original trilogy, and indeed as good as the original trilogy. 7.5/10, and I might give it an 8 on a rewatch. TFA I came out feeling 4/10, but the more I thought about the worse it got, and I now would put at a 2/10 - just above Dragonheart, Braveheart, The Scooby Doo movie and that sort of thing. If you enjoy it, and you want to keep enjoying it, all I can say is don't start analyzing it. If you start picking nits, you will find there isn't anything left. That I can totally dig. [/QUOTE]
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