Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
RPG Evolution - The AI DM: The Trouble with Art
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8988791" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>It's not at all the same thing. Humans learn by semantic content. We're really quite <em>bad</em> at learning syntactic content; just consider how a slight change in the wording of a probability question can result in going from "90% will pick the right answer" to "well-educated humans whose job is to answer this kind of question do it <em>worse</em> than random guessing."</p><p></p><p>This is not to say that we must eliminate these things. LLMs have their uses. But if a company makes millions selling an LLM that stores data scraped from an artist's work, legally and morally, there is a case that that artist should be paid. A student learning by practice is not <em>selling the derivative sketches.</em> Which is what the AI <em>is</em> doing: not learning techniques by practice (because that is semantic content completely invisible to LLMs), but <em>actually</em> copying the data and then jumbling it up with other, similar data.</p><p></p><p>It is like making a film by stitching together <em>slightly modified</em> one-second clips of 7200 other films. Sure, it has been changed, and the presence of each individual film is incredibly short. It's still stitched together from them, rather than truly <em>original</em> work, made from whole cloth. Which will force us to face the sorites paradox of remixing vs originality: a single grain of sand is not a heap, but enough of them and it becomes one, yet removing individual grains does not make it *stops being a heap. When does a garment become wholly original and not a patchwork--is it enough to unweave the cloth and then reweave it? Can you keep a little bit of the original cloth, or does it have to be all "new"? Etc.</p><p></p><p>We will learn to adapt around these tools just as we have others. But it is not true, neither technically nor practically, to say that these things are 100% identical to a student practicing to develop their skills, and the differences are <em>extremely</em> salient for what ethics we should uphold with the use of these tools. Just as ethical use of something like Photoshop is a big deal; it can be very easy to pass off what is not real, to tell lies with pixels.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8988791, member: 6790260"] It's not at all the same thing. Humans learn by semantic content. We're really quite [I]bad[/I] at learning syntactic content; just consider how a slight change in the wording of a probability question can result in going from "90% will pick the right answer" to "well-educated humans whose job is to answer this kind of question do it [I]worse[/I] than random guessing." This is not to say that we must eliminate these things. LLMs have their uses. But if a company makes millions selling an LLM that stores data scraped from an artist's work, legally and morally, there is a case that that artist should be paid. A student learning by practice is not [I]selling the derivative sketches.[/I] Which is what the AI [I]is[/I] doing: not learning techniques by practice (because that is semantic content completely invisible to LLMs), but [I]actually[/I] copying the data and then jumbling it up with other, similar data. It is like making a film by stitching together [I]slightly modified[/I] one-second clips of 7200 other films. Sure, it has been changed, and the presence of each individual film is incredibly short. It's still stitched together from them, rather than truly [I]original[/I] work, made from whole cloth. Which will force us to face the sorites paradox of remixing vs originality: a single grain of sand is not a heap, but enough of them and it becomes one, yet removing individual grains does not make it *stops being a heap. When does a garment become wholly original and not a patchwork--is it enough to unweave the cloth and then reweave it? Can you keep a little bit of the original cloth, or does it have to be all "new"? Etc. We will learn to adapt around these tools just as we have others. But it is not true, neither technically nor practically, to say that these things are 100% identical to a student practicing to develop their skills, and the differences are [I]extremely[/I] salient for what ethics we should uphold with the use of these tools. Just as ethical use of something like Photoshop is a big deal; it can be very easy to pass off what is not real, to tell lies with pixels. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
RPG Evolution - The AI DM: The Trouble with Art
Top