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<blockquote data-quote="Cergorach" data-source="post: 8870771" data-attributes="member: 725"><p>I wouldn't say that D&D was 'better' before. I like 2e over Basic, I like 3e over 2e, I didn't like 4e and 5e is just a step up from 3e (rules wise). I would even say that readability of the rules have increased drastically. But that is mechanically.</p><p></p><p>'fluff' wise things have been (re)written to get that broader appeal, that means changes, sometimes drastic changes. That can easily move something from 'love' to 'detest' for people. And I suspect the longer the period of time you've been exposed to D&D and the less flexible/adaptive you are from a personality perspective, the sooner the 'detest' hits. When you change the point of a product across the bar into a region that more people might like it, you will almost certainly move it out of the region (a large part of) your previous customers liked it in.</p><p></p><p>My biggest issue with 5e isn't the mechanics, it's a lot of 'else', mostly the direction the settings have gone towards, the subject matter or all the 'noise' around that subject matter (in the news)... Kicking your settings a 100+ years into the future and making drastic changes makes the new stuff virtually incompatible with the old stuff and I see that as a HUGE problem. The core of 5E makes it pretty agnostic of what setting exactly is used or in what era, so for me 5E as a game system (mechanics wise) is perfectly acceptable for D&D, but I see very little reason why I should buy anything else in 5E. I'm a BIG Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, Darksun, etc. fan. But I see no reason to buy any of that stuff for 5E. Initially I get excited, but then details appear that I just don't like, significant changes from source, political correctness for PC sake (instead of actually educating people), etc.</p><p></p><p>Let me add another example: The Windows operating system. We use it because almost everybody uses it, we generally stay with it because it's the only OS that runs the software we use (or have collected over the years), including games. Imagine a new version of Windows that absolutely won't work with software/games from previous versions of Windows. Suddenly we have a point where we have the ability too choose freely again, without many years of baggage... Why doesn't Microsoft do that? Because they would loose a TON of customers and market dominance. WotC lost a ton of D&D customers with 4E, and regained a TON of customers with 5E, many of which are new customers. That is pretty much what WotC/Hasbro did with D&D, they gave us an unintended choice, leave behind an ungodly amount of material, that has cost a pretty penny and buy another ungodly amount of material, that will cost a pretty penny. With all expectations being, that what has happened before will happen again... We can totally just pick the mechanical stuff and just use the old setting!</p><p></p><p>And I don't think we're forgetting about the rubble, anything but. How TSR/WotC/Hasbro has handled their online presence and tools in the past is the reason why we should 'fear' the new direction of D&D. How WotC/Hasbro has handled their other IP (like Magic: The Gathering) is the reason why we should 'fear' the new direction of D&D. I'm not a big M:TG fan, but I do like Magic: Arena. But how many other long forgotten M;TG games/platforms have there been and how well supported were those... When big time business analysts are saying that WotC/Hasbro is mismanaging their M:TG property, something is VERY wrong! D&D is in that same updraft that M:TG was in a couple of years ago... “All of this has happened before. <strong>All of this will happen again</strong>.”</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cergorach, post: 8870771, member: 725"] I wouldn't say that D&D was 'better' before. I like 2e over Basic, I like 3e over 2e, I didn't like 4e and 5e is just a step up from 3e (rules wise). I would even say that readability of the rules have increased drastically. But that is mechanically. 'fluff' wise things have been (re)written to get that broader appeal, that means changes, sometimes drastic changes. That can easily move something from 'love' to 'detest' for people. And I suspect the longer the period of time you've been exposed to D&D and the less flexible/adaptive you are from a personality perspective, the sooner the 'detest' hits. When you change the point of a product across the bar into a region that more people might like it, you will almost certainly move it out of the region (a large part of) your previous customers liked it in. My biggest issue with 5e isn't the mechanics, it's a lot of 'else', mostly the direction the settings have gone towards, the subject matter or all the 'noise' around that subject matter (in the news)... Kicking your settings a 100+ years into the future and making drastic changes makes the new stuff virtually incompatible with the old stuff and I see that as a HUGE problem. The core of 5E makes it pretty agnostic of what setting exactly is used or in what era, so for me 5E as a game system (mechanics wise) is perfectly acceptable for D&D, but I see very little reason why I should buy anything else in 5E. I'm a BIG Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape, Darksun, etc. fan. But I see no reason to buy any of that stuff for 5E. Initially I get excited, but then details appear that I just don't like, significant changes from source, political correctness for PC sake (instead of actually educating people), etc. Let me add another example: The Windows operating system. We use it because almost everybody uses it, we generally stay with it because it's the only OS that runs the software we use (or have collected over the years), including games. Imagine a new version of Windows that absolutely won't work with software/games from previous versions of Windows. Suddenly we have a point where we have the ability too choose freely again, without many years of baggage... Why doesn't Microsoft do that? Because they would loose a TON of customers and market dominance. WotC lost a ton of D&D customers with 4E, and regained a TON of customers with 5E, many of which are new customers. That is pretty much what WotC/Hasbro did with D&D, they gave us an unintended choice, leave behind an ungodly amount of material, that has cost a pretty penny and buy another ungodly amount of material, that will cost a pretty penny. With all expectations being, that what has happened before will happen again... We can totally just pick the mechanical stuff and just use the old setting! And I don't think we're forgetting about the rubble, anything but. How TSR/WotC/Hasbro has handled their online presence and tools in the past is the reason why we should 'fear' the new direction of D&D. How WotC/Hasbro has handled their other IP (like Magic: The Gathering) is the reason why we should 'fear' the new direction of D&D. I'm not a big M:TG fan, but I do like Magic: Arena. But how many other long forgotten M;TG games/platforms have there been and how well supported were those... When big time business analysts are saying that WotC/Hasbro is mismanaging their M:TG property, something is VERY wrong! D&D is in that same updraft that M:TG was in a couple of years ago... “All of this has happened before. [B]All of this will happen again[/B].” [/QUOTE]
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