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*TTRPGs General
RPGs And Eurostyle Games: When Opposites Attract
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<blockquote data-quote="lewpuls" data-source="post: 7749322" data-attributes="member: 30518"><p>A large subset of board games is Eurostyle games. These games are almost exactly the opposite of RPGs in many ways. Keep in mind, board (including some card) games are a vastly larger segment of tabletop gaming than RPGs in monetary terms, and Eurostyle games are a <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4258-How-big-s-the-RPG-market#.WWIYCYTyujU" target="_blank">large part of that segment</a>. So even if you have no interest in non-RPGs, a comparison may help you understand what you do (and could do) with your own campaign or RPG design.</p><p></p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH]98195[/ATTACH]</p><p>[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]<p style="text-align: center">Photo by <a href="https://unsplash.com/photos/DT9d0RzDfe4" target="_blank">Jaciel Melnik on Unsplash</a></p><p></p><p>The original general description of Euros was "family games on steroids". But people often disagree at the most fundamental level, about what a Eurogame is - I've even heard my game <em>Britannia </em>described as a Euro (NO!) - so you'll certainly see exceptions to the following generalizations. </p><p> </p><p><strong>Player to Player Interaction</strong></p><p>Most RPGs are highly interactive player to player games. During adventures, you cannot afford to ignore what the opposition (or your own comrades) are doing, you've got to react well or fail. Euros are usually low interaction games, where you can do your thing (frequently, solving what amounts to a puzzle) with little or no concern for what other players are doing. RPGs are directly competitive (in the sense of competing with the bad guys) while Euros are parallel competitions, sometimes called "multiplayer solitaire", where the object is to outdo the other players while rarely affecting them directly.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Avatar Basis - or Not</strong></p><p>You have three types of avatar in games: the "do-er" (as in one doing actions) versus the King/general (the one giving the commands) versus <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4653-The-Most-Important-Design-Aspect-of-Hobby-RPGs-Is-The-Pure-Humanoid-Avatar#.WgO672iPKUk" target="_blank">the mysterious, omnipotent controller</a>. RPGs popularized the single entity (usually humanoid, almost always alive) from which all the player's actions emanate, and which is at risk - if it dies, the player fails. This is the do-er avatar.</p><p> </p><p>In Euros, typically the player is the mysterious, omnipotent controller, occasionally the one giving commands, rarely the do-er avatar. </p><p> </p><p><strong>Closed vs Open</strong></p><p>RPGs usually have no goal that ends the game as a whole; if they do, it's often after a long series of adventures. Adventures may have a goal, or not. Euros rarely have an organic goal (one that derives from the situation), typically there's an arbitrary end (as "play 5 rounds"). They have clear objectives, often expressed in victory points</p><p> </p><p>Euros rarely last as long as one session of an RPG (let alone many sessions in succession). When the game is done, there's no more, no continuing assets. Campaign RPGs continue from session to session with a continuing narrative.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Abstraction</strong></p><p>Euros are often abstract games with a "theme" tacked on. RPGs usually model some situation, whether historical or fictional. The mechanisms that work for Eurogamers often don't work for an actual model of something.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Corporate Management vs Command</strong></p><p>RPGs are usually "Command" style games, Dynamic games, where players look for direct, bold solutions to their in-game problems. Euros are often mid-level corporate management games, Incremental, about small improvements rather than big changes. (This is a future game styles topic.)</p><p> </p><p><strong>Dice</strong></p><p>Dice tend to be avoided in Euros (though chance may be involved, often through cards). Most RPGs use lots of dice.</p><p> </p><p><strong>Co-operation</strong></p><p>RPGs are usually co-operative endeavors against opposition controlled by a human GM. While there are co-operative Euros (<em>Pandemic </em>etc.), most are parallel competitions with the winner being the person who executes their task most efficiently. When RPGs are competitions, they may be parallel (whoever completes the adventure best among competing groups) or direct (one player group fighting another).</p><p> </p><p><strong>Simple Rules</strong></p><p>Euros tend to have short rulesets; people often try to read the rules the first time while playing the game! RPGs mostly have long rulesets. The core book of a top-line RPG has more words than a hundred Eurogames!</p><p> </p><p><strong>Positivity</strong></p><p>Euros generally use positive scoring mechanisms (you cannot lose points, e.g.). They're about building up, not tearing down or taking away. RPGs usually involve gain and loss, of hit points or character life, certainly the opposition lose their possessions and their lives, even as characters improve.</p><p> </p><p><strong>The Players</strong></p><p>Many Euro fans don't get RPGs. Many RPGers don't play Euros. I think this is significantly generational, as avatar games (and co-op games) are the preference of Millennials, while Euros attract older players (though Baby Boomers are often wargamers).</p><p> </p><p>If you want additional analysis of Eurogames, a dozen years ago I wrote a detailed description of the "<a href="https://pulsiphergames.com/gamedesign/TheEssenceofEurostyleGames.htm" target="_blank">Essence of Eurostyle Games</a>." Things have changed, but most of it still applies.</p><p></p><p><em>contributed by Lewis Pulsipher</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lewpuls, post: 7749322, member: 30518"] A large subset of board games is Eurostyle games. These games are almost exactly the opposite of RPGs in many ways. Keep in mind, board (including some card) games are a vastly larger segment of tabletop gaming than RPGs in monetary terms, and Eurostyle games are a [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4258-How-big-s-the-RPG-market#.WWIYCYTyujU"]large part of that segment[/URL]. So even if you have no interest in non-RPGs, a comparison may help you understand what you do (and could do) with your own campaign or RPG design. [CENTER][ATTACH=CONFIG]98195[/ATTACH][/CENTER] [PRBREAK][/PRBREAK][CENTER]Photo by [URL="https://unsplash.com/photos/DT9d0RzDfe4"]Jaciel Melnik on Unsplash[/URL][/CENTER] The original general description of Euros was "family games on steroids". But people often disagree at the most fundamental level, about what a Eurogame is - I've even heard my game [I]Britannia [/I]described as a Euro (NO!) - so you'll certainly see exceptions to the following generalizations. [B]Player to Player Interaction[/B] Most RPGs are highly interactive player to player games. During adventures, you cannot afford to ignore what the opposition (or your own comrades) are doing, you've got to react well or fail. Euros are usually low interaction games, where you can do your thing (frequently, solving what amounts to a puzzle) with little or no concern for what other players are doing. RPGs are directly competitive (in the sense of competing with the bad guys) while Euros are parallel competitions, sometimes called "multiplayer solitaire", where the object is to outdo the other players while rarely affecting them directly. [B]Avatar Basis - or Not[/B] You have three types of avatar in games: the "do-er" (as in one doing actions) versus the King/general (the one giving the commands) versus [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?4653-The-Most-Important-Design-Aspect-of-Hobby-RPGs-Is-The-Pure-Humanoid-Avatar#.WgO672iPKUk"]the mysterious, omnipotent controller[/URL]. RPGs popularized the single entity (usually humanoid, almost always alive) from which all the player's actions emanate, and which is at risk - if it dies, the player fails. This is the do-er avatar. In Euros, typically the player is the mysterious, omnipotent controller, occasionally the one giving commands, rarely the do-er avatar. [B]Closed vs Open[/B] RPGs usually have no goal that ends the game as a whole; if they do, it's often after a long series of adventures. Adventures may have a goal, or not. Euros rarely have an organic goal (one that derives from the situation), typically there's an arbitrary end (as "play 5 rounds"). They have clear objectives, often expressed in victory points Euros rarely last as long as one session of an RPG (let alone many sessions in succession). When the game is done, there's no more, no continuing assets. Campaign RPGs continue from session to session with a continuing narrative. [B]Abstraction[/B] Euros are often abstract games with a "theme" tacked on. RPGs usually model some situation, whether historical or fictional. The mechanisms that work for Eurogamers often don't work for an actual model of something. [B]Corporate Management vs Command[/B] RPGs are usually "Command" style games, Dynamic games, where players look for direct, bold solutions to their in-game problems. Euros are often mid-level corporate management games, Incremental, about small improvements rather than big changes. (This is a future game styles topic.) [B]Dice[/B] Dice tend to be avoided in Euros (though chance may be involved, often through cards). Most RPGs use lots of dice. [B]Co-operation[/B] RPGs are usually co-operative endeavors against opposition controlled by a human GM. While there are co-operative Euros ([I]Pandemic [/I]etc.), most are parallel competitions with the winner being the person who executes their task most efficiently. When RPGs are competitions, they may be parallel (whoever completes the adventure best among competing groups) or direct (one player group fighting another). [B]Simple Rules[/B] Euros tend to have short rulesets; people often try to read the rules the first time while playing the game! RPGs mostly have long rulesets. The core book of a top-line RPG has more words than a hundred Eurogames! [B]Positivity[/B] Euros generally use positive scoring mechanisms (you cannot lose points, e.g.). They're about building up, not tearing down or taking away. RPGs usually involve gain and loss, of hit points or character life, certainly the opposition lose their possessions and their lives, even as characters improve. [B]The Players[/B] Many Euro fans don't get RPGs. Many RPGers don't play Euros. I think this is significantly generational, as avatar games (and co-op games) are the preference of Millennials, while Euros attract older players (though Baby Boomers are often wargamers). If you want additional analysis of Eurogames, a dozen years ago I wrote a detailed description of the "[URL="https://pulsiphergames.com/gamedesign/TheEssenceofEurostyleGames.htm"]Essence of Eurostyle Games[/URL]." Things have changed, but most of it still applies. [I]contributed by Lewis Pulsipher[/I] [/QUOTE]
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