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Rule of Three and THEMES! FINALLY THEMES!!!!
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<blockquote data-quote="DNH" data-source="post: 5547374" data-attributes="member: 63615"><p>Just to sort of drag this thread back to the topics of its title ...</p><p></p><p>Very much looking forward to seeing these themes. I don't have the Dark Sun book but I have seen it and something about themes elsewhere and they look to be very interesting. Certainly something I would be VERY interested in as a player (although unfortunately, I only DM for 4e). Issue #399 looks to be a must-have (if that applies anymore).</p><p></p><p>Does anyone here also play Pathfinder and have the Advanced Players Guide? This book (published just a week after Dark Sun, if Amazon is a reliable guide) brought "archetypes" into the game. These are options for character classes (builds, if you like) where you swap out certain abilities for others or take specific feat choices. For example, the Sniper - a Rogue archetype - gets Accuracy in place of Trapfinding, Deadly Range in place of Trap Sense, and so on. All very similar stuff, from what I can see. I don't really have a point here - I am certainly not saying that Paizo pinched WotC's idea - only to say that this is the way that gaming is going and that's all good.</p><p></p><p>Concerning the Rule-of-Three article ...</p><p></p><p>1 - Good to see this kind of editorial decision. I don't think anyone would disagree that sometimes it is better to concentrate on one item in order to complete it sooner, even if that means putting back another to a later date. No-one would be happy to wait until they were both complete.</p><p></p><p>2 - You don't hear it so often these days, thankfully, (or maybe I just don't read the right forums) but comparisons between 4e and MMORPGs used to be legion, not to mention pejorative (I always preferred to compare 4e with Magic: The Gathering, but that's by-the-by). Anyone who has ever played MMORPGs for any length of time will have experienced so-called "nerfing" whereby the game developers rejig the mechanics of certain powers, or sometimes remove the thing wholesale. There are complaints, of course, but because the thing is done in the interests of balance, the complainers don't really have much ground to stand on. </p><p></p><p>My point here is that, in my view, WotC are well within their rights to withdraw certain elements of the game from circulation (eg the CB). If people really want to use those elements, well, no-one can actually stop them, just as no-one can stop anyone from house-ruling any part of the game. But perhaps certain elements should be flagged up as being "Deprecated" or "Unbalanced". For my money though, I would happily watch as WotC took a stiff brush to the game and swept out all the bits that don't work (anymore, if they ever did), have been superceded or are unbalanced.</p><p></p><p>3 - "We started columns like this one back in February precisely because we saw a gap between what the audience wanted and saw as important, and what we were dealing with in R&D. We’re not going to bridge that gap overnight, but I think we’ve made steps forward in correcting that."</p><p></p><p>Agreed. Say what you like about Wizards, and this forum has said it all before now and will say it all again, but this is a valid point. They ARE starting to listen to the players. Rule-of-Three may occasionally get used as a channel for announcements (witness the themes thing with question one, this month) but it also occasionally allows them/us to turn the spotlight on some parts of the game or aspects of the company that would not normally get much of a mention. I applaud the courage in answering such questions and I applaud also the efforts being made to make sure 4e D&D is a game played by gamers the world over and not just the people in the R&D offices.</p><p></p><p>As for the immediate actions thing, I agree with Nick ... sorry, I mean Mike! (A joke for the Brits, there.) These things can be interesting but they quickly get old if they get used (or not even used; as Mike says, sometimes the game halts while these immediate actions get investigated to see if they are worth implementing) every round. Keying the triggers to more rare and dramatic events seems to me to be a sensible method of resolving that issue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DNH, post: 5547374, member: 63615"] Just to sort of drag this thread back to the topics of its title ... Very much looking forward to seeing these themes. I don't have the Dark Sun book but I have seen it and something about themes elsewhere and they look to be very interesting. Certainly something I would be VERY interested in as a player (although unfortunately, I only DM for 4e). Issue #399 looks to be a must-have (if that applies anymore). Does anyone here also play Pathfinder and have the Advanced Players Guide? This book (published just a week after Dark Sun, if Amazon is a reliable guide) brought "archetypes" into the game. These are options for character classes (builds, if you like) where you swap out certain abilities for others or take specific feat choices. For example, the Sniper - a Rogue archetype - gets Accuracy in place of Trapfinding, Deadly Range in place of Trap Sense, and so on. All very similar stuff, from what I can see. I don't really have a point here - I am certainly not saying that Paizo pinched WotC's idea - only to say that this is the way that gaming is going and that's all good. Concerning the Rule-of-Three article ... 1 - Good to see this kind of editorial decision. I don't think anyone would disagree that sometimes it is better to concentrate on one item in order to complete it sooner, even if that means putting back another to a later date. No-one would be happy to wait until they were both complete. 2 - You don't hear it so often these days, thankfully, (or maybe I just don't read the right forums) but comparisons between 4e and MMORPGs used to be legion, not to mention pejorative (I always preferred to compare 4e with Magic: The Gathering, but that's by-the-by). Anyone who has ever played MMORPGs for any length of time will have experienced so-called "nerfing" whereby the game developers rejig the mechanics of certain powers, or sometimes remove the thing wholesale. There are complaints, of course, but because the thing is done in the interests of balance, the complainers don't really have much ground to stand on. My point here is that, in my view, WotC are well within their rights to withdraw certain elements of the game from circulation (eg the CB). If people really want to use those elements, well, no-one can actually stop them, just as no-one can stop anyone from house-ruling any part of the game. But perhaps certain elements should be flagged up as being "Deprecated" or "Unbalanced". For my money though, I would happily watch as WotC took a stiff brush to the game and swept out all the bits that don't work (anymore, if they ever did), have been superceded or are unbalanced. 3 - "We started columns like this one back in February precisely because we saw a gap between what the audience wanted and saw as important, and what we were dealing with in R&D. We’re not going to bridge that gap overnight, but I think we’ve made steps forward in correcting that." Agreed. Say what you like about Wizards, and this forum has said it all before now and will say it all again, but this is a valid point. They ARE starting to listen to the players. Rule-of-Three may occasionally get used as a channel for announcements (witness the themes thing with question one, this month) but it also occasionally allows them/us to turn the spotlight on some parts of the game or aspects of the company that would not normally get much of a mention. I applaud the courage in answering such questions and I applaud also the efforts being made to make sure 4e D&D is a game played by gamers the world over and not just the people in the R&D offices. As for the immediate actions thing, I agree with Nick ... sorry, I mean Mike! (A joke for the Brits, there.) These things can be interesting but they quickly get old if they get used (or not even used; as Mike says, sometimes the game halts while these immediate actions get investigated to see if they are worth implementing) every round. Keying the triggers to more rare and dramatic events seems to me to be a sensible method of resolving that issue. [/QUOTE]
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