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Rules, Rulings and Second Order Design: D&D and AD&D Examined
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<blockquote data-quote="jmartkdr2" data-source="post: 9043239" data-attributes="member: 7017304"><p>People sometimes talk past each other. I'm trying to align things. </p><p></p><p>The only time I've seen "fun as a goal" be a problem is at the second-order level - this thing was fun in one context, so it must be fun in all contexts, yes? Like adding a slice of cheese to your cereal because it's so good on hamburgers, not all combinations are better than the sum of their parts. </p><p></p><p>In practice, this often means adding mechanics that worked in one genre to a game in another: old-school resource scarcity by attrition just does not jive with superhero games. High-octane anime combat doesn't fit in horror-mystery games. But a dm switching games without switching genre expectations will often make those kinds of mistakes. </p><p></p><p> The other way it comes up isn't really about prioritizing fun per se, but prioritizing fun <strong>now</strong> without considering the overall effect - the "always say yes" problem wearing a different coat. I've seen that called "the tyranny of fun" but I'd say a better name is "helicopter parenting your players." </p><p></p><p>Because fun doesn't mean the same thing to all people -heck, it's doesn't mean the same thing every time I say it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jmartkdr2, post: 9043239, member: 7017304"] People sometimes talk past each other. I'm trying to align things. The only time I've seen "fun as a goal" be a problem is at the second-order level - this thing was fun in one context, so it must be fun in all contexts, yes? Like adding a slice of cheese to your cereal because it's so good on hamburgers, not all combinations are better than the sum of their parts. In practice, this often means adding mechanics that worked in one genre to a game in another: old-school resource scarcity by attrition just does not jive with superhero games. High-octane anime combat doesn't fit in horror-mystery games. But a dm switching games without switching genre expectations will often make those kinds of mistakes. The other way it comes up isn't really about prioritizing fun per se, but prioritizing fun [B]now[/B] without considering the overall effect - the "always say yes" problem wearing a different coat. I've seen that called "the tyranny of fun" but I'd say a better name is "helicopter parenting your players." Because fun doesn't mean the same thing to all people -heck, it's doesn't mean the same thing every time I say it. [/QUOTE]
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