Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Rules Transparency - How much do players need to know?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6974591" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I think that this misses the real point.</p><p></p><p>You referred to the "movement of pointy metal objects" as something that is a physics issue which the rules answer. But they don't. The questions of whether a character can make one, two or ten attack rolls per minute; and whether a character can typically withstand the outcome of one, two or ten successful attack rolls; are not physics questions.</p><p></p><p>They are entirely questions about game design. Different games answer them differently, for their various reasons. But there is no "physics" answer which tells you that a fight between a typical mercenary soldier and a typical orc should last less than a minute and perhaps as little as 10 or fewer seconds (as 3E will tend to give you), two to five minutes (as AD&D will tend to give you - hit chances are lower, and damage less relative to hp, while rounds are longer), or something in between (Moldvay Basic keeps all the numbers much the same as AD&D but reduces rounds to 10 seconds, so the combat will probably last up to a minute but no more; 4e keeps the rounds the same as 3E but increases the hp relative to damage, and so more rounds will be required to bring the fight to an end).</p><p></p><p>But, as I have said, this choice of action economy <em>will</em> matter to the decision to climb a tree, because few systems are going to require more than 1 minute to do so (so with 1 minute rounds its a fairly low-cost action declaration) but many may require more than 6 seconds to do so (so with 6 second rounds it is a fairly high-cost action declaration, particularly if - while it is being resolved - a penalty to defence is suffered).</p><p></p><p>I think that whenever players are making decisions whose prospects of success are mediated by these sorts of rules constructs, they are entitled to know the rules - at a minimum, what the action economy is.</p><p></p><p>(The same things could be said about facing: in 3E and 4e it doesn't matter, but in AD&D it does - players can't know this just by intuition; or about the effects of attacks with lethal weapons - in RQ, RM, BW etc these can be deadly to an otherwise uninjured person, but in D&D above the lowest levels typically not - players can't know this just by intuition either!)</p><p></p><p>If players don't know about these rules constructs, and yet the GM is using them as tools of adjudication, then at best the players are just guessing; at worst the GM is the only one really <em>playing</em> the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6974591, member: 42582"] I think that this misses the real point. You referred to the "movement of pointy metal objects" as something that is a physics issue which the rules answer. But they don't. The questions of whether a character can make one, two or ten attack rolls per minute; and whether a character can typically withstand the outcome of one, two or ten successful attack rolls; are not physics questions. They are entirely questions about game design. Different games answer them differently, for their various reasons. But there is no "physics" answer which tells you that a fight between a typical mercenary soldier and a typical orc should last less than a minute and perhaps as little as 10 or fewer seconds (as 3E will tend to give you), two to five minutes (as AD&D will tend to give you - hit chances are lower, and damage less relative to hp, while rounds are longer), or something in between (Moldvay Basic keeps all the numbers much the same as AD&D but reduces rounds to 10 seconds, so the combat will probably last up to a minute but no more; 4e keeps the rounds the same as 3E but increases the hp relative to damage, and so more rounds will be required to bring the fight to an end). But, as I have said, this choice of action economy [I]will[/I] matter to the decision to climb a tree, because few systems are going to require more than 1 minute to do so (so with 1 minute rounds its a fairly low-cost action declaration) but many may require more than 6 seconds to do so (so with 6 second rounds it is a fairly high-cost action declaration, particularly if - while it is being resolved - a penalty to defence is suffered). I think that whenever players are making decisions whose prospects of success are mediated by these sorts of rules constructs, they are entitled to know the rules - at a minimum, what the action economy is. (The same things could be said about facing: in 3E and 4e it doesn't matter, but in AD&D it does - players can't know this just by intuition; or about the effects of attacks with lethal weapons - in RQ, RM, BW etc these can be deadly to an otherwise uninjured person, but in D&D above the lowest levels typically not - players can't know this just by intuition either!) If players don't know about these rules constructs, and yet the GM is using them as tools of adjudication, then at best the players are just guessing; at worst the GM is the only one really [I]playing[/I] the game. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Rules Transparency - How much do players need to know?
Top