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"Run away! Run away!" ... what if they don't?
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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7450811" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p>Its funny you mention this as it seemed to come up in our last session. </p><p></p><p>We had a mission to scout the enemy. The GM said the enemy was a skill military group. We found them successful evaded patrols and snuck in to scout out and see what they were doing. We get to the end of a cave they are protecting and I check for any signs of life of an enemy role 24 perception check... nothing it look as nothing is alive in here. We move in to investigate because we see some excavation has been taking place and find and alter. A Dragon then crawls out of the water... apparently the perception check to look for living things was an auto fail for me since the dragon was in the water, however the dragon did not auto fail know we where there from its under water layer we were there... go figure. But now we are cornered and the dragon is blocking the door and we are a group of level 6 characters. The dragon gets to go first, we are all grouped up so dragon breath.. I am down before my first turn. Bard casts Tasha's Hideous Laughter, the dragon fails the save and the bard yells run as it starts laughing. I get revived by a basic healing potion and we start running. The thing is the dragon has an army out side and can move faster than us with great perception. We have no where to hide and no where to run. </p><p></p><p>We head for the exit with a small hope of sneaking out before the dragon can catch us to find the army already alerted mobilized and standing in front of the only exit. Now we are now fighting on two fronts what might have been a lose on one. </p><p></p><p>The GMs response to our growing despair? Well what did you expect your scouting a well trained army. My response was well we were sent on a mission to scout a well trained army and we were not fighting them we were sneaking around them and scouting them. We lost our chance to escape when we checked to make sure we were not ambushed which was the right move, and autofail so that the GM could setup a story moment to capture us because in the end that was the plan all along. We were never intended to succeed and any chance of success was precluded. No dice role or player choice would have saved us. Fortunately, the GM having the opportunity to kill my character allowed me to live by stopping the fight then giving the party a chance to surrender and heal me before I died. </p><p></p><p></p><p>As a player I don't like being railroaded… however, from a GM perspective, the GM spent a lot of work on content, character scrips, back story, combat encounter designs, and plot points. If we just bypass it, that work is lost and could be very frustrating. So when, we sneak past obstacles to steal a boat successfully its not uncommon for the boat to be directly under a guard tower and a watchful eye that just can't miss a boat being moved. While I don't like this... I do understand it. </p><p></p><p>The OP is talking about encounters that aren't scaled and is a slightly different point. The answer to me is the same. If your willing to auto-fail for the stake of story … you should also be willing to auto-success when you have hooked your players into a no win situation. You should give them a way out after they realize they are done. It they then willingly choose to go down fighting... well … give them what they want. If in my example above the group kept fighting after the dragon called for his troops to stop. The GM would have easily and rightfully been able to TPK the group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7450811, member: 6880599"] Its funny you mention this as it seemed to come up in our last session. We had a mission to scout the enemy. The GM said the enemy was a skill military group. We found them successful evaded patrols and snuck in to scout out and see what they were doing. We get to the end of a cave they are protecting and I check for any signs of life of an enemy role 24 perception check... nothing it look as nothing is alive in here. We move in to investigate because we see some excavation has been taking place and find and alter. A Dragon then crawls out of the water... apparently the perception check to look for living things was an auto fail for me since the dragon was in the water, however the dragon did not auto fail know we where there from its under water layer we were there... go figure. But now we are cornered and the dragon is blocking the door and we are a group of level 6 characters. The dragon gets to go first, we are all grouped up so dragon breath.. I am down before my first turn. Bard casts Tasha's Hideous Laughter, the dragon fails the save and the bard yells run as it starts laughing. I get revived by a basic healing potion and we start running. The thing is the dragon has an army out side and can move faster than us with great perception. We have no where to hide and no where to run. We head for the exit with a small hope of sneaking out before the dragon can catch us to find the army already alerted mobilized and standing in front of the only exit. Now we are now fighting on two fronts what might have been a lose on one. The GMs response to our growing despair? Well what did you expect your scouting a well trained army. My response was well we were sent on a mission to scout a well trained army and we were not fighting them we were sneaking around them and scouting them. We lost our chance to escape when we checked to make sure we were not ambushed which was the right move, and autofail so that the GM could setup a story moment to capture us because in the end that was the plan all along. We were never intended to succeed and any chance of success was precluded. No dice role or player choice would have saved us. Fortunately, the GM having the opportunity to kill my character allowed me to live by stopping the fight then giving the party a chance to surrender and heal me before I died. As a player I don't like being railroaded… however, from a GM perspective, the GM spent a lot of work on content, character scrips, back story, combat encounter designs, and plot points. If we just bypass it, that work is lost and could be very frustrating. So when, we sneak past obstacles to steal a boat successfully its not uncommon for the boat to be directly under a guard tower and a watchful eye that just can't miss a boat being moved. While I don't like this... I do understand it. The OP is talking about encounters that aren't scaled and is a slightly different point. The answer to me is the same. If your willing to auto-fail for the stake of story … you should also be willing to auto-success when you have hooked your players into a no win situation. You should give them a way out after they realize they are done. It they then willingly choose to go down fighting... well … give them what they want. If in my example above the group kept fighting after the dragon called for his troops to stop. The GM would have easily and rightfully been able to TPK the group. [/QUOTE]
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