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"Run away! Run away!" ... what if they don't?
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 7451052" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>For me it usn't PCs first or second, it is DM with the players. We tell the story together. The DM creates the world in which the heroes act, but I do not railroad them. And, their decisions clealry have impacts.</p><p></p><p>There are two extremes in one spectrum of DM style: Complete sandbox and complete railroad. In a complete sandbox, the DM drops challenges in his world and then lets the players wander from one to the next with no guiding elements pointing them from one event to the next. You might say these PCs have all the decision making power once the DM makes the world. In a complete railroad, the PCs are forced to go to a particular encounter at a particular time. The DM controls everything. In my experience, the game works best when you go right in the middle. It allows players and the DM to work together to create the best story.</p><p></p><p>I do not randomly drop 6 Fire Giants in front of four 5th level PCs. At best, the PCs hide and flee. At worst, they decide there is a reason to engage and we get a TPK. Neither is a great story beat. However, I might put 6 fire giants in front of a party if there is a reason to have them there, but if there is a reason, then I can make it clear to the PCs that engaging is suicide and that there is a good alternate path. They might still engage, but they had other paths and story reasons not to do so. The encounter with the Giants would almost assuredly not be just a brawl in waiting. There would be something else going on that makes them want to put themselves in that much danger, but does not require them to attack the giants. And, in these situations, there is rarely just one path for them to choose.</p><p></p><p>As you say, there are different play styles. However, PCs often randomly wandering into monsters that are likely to kill them unless they can flee is not a style I've seen work well. It is almost always frustrating to the players. </p><p></p><p>And one more thing to consider: The DMG suggests easy and medium encounters. Why? After all, they're not intended to threaten the lives of the PCs? Why have a "gimme" encounter? Because you can use these encounters to tell a good story. The challenge for the PCs may not be killing the enemy before the enemy kills them... it might be stopping the goblins before they run off with the farmer's kid. It might be preventing the dryad from wasting tie that the PCs want to spend hunting an enemy. There are a lot of great story moments where the PCs can feel like great heroes - not victims struggling at every turn to survive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 7451052, member: 2629"] For me it usn't PCs first or second, it is DM with the players. We tell the story together. The DM creates the world in which the heroes act, but I do not railroad them. And, their decisions clealry have impacts. There are two extremes in one spectrum of DM style: Complete sandbox and complete railroad. In a complete sandbox, the DM drops challenges in his world and then lets the players wander from one to the next with no guiding elements pointing them from one event to the next. You might say these PCs have all the decision making power once the DM makes the world. In a complete railroad, the PCs are forced to go to a particular encounter at a particular time. The DM controls everything. In my experience, the game works best when you go right in the middle. It allows players and the DM to work together to create the best story. I do not randomly drop 6 Fire Giants in front of four 5th level PCs. At best, the PCs hide and flee. At worst, they decide there is a reason to engage and we get a TPK. Neither is a great story beat. However, I might put 6 fire giants in front of a party if there is a reason to have them there, but if there is a reason, then I can make it clear to the PCs that engaging is suicide and that there is a good alternate path. They might still engage, but they had other paths and story reasons not to do so. The encounter with the Giants would almost assuredly not be just a brawl in waiting. There would be something else going on that makes them want to put themselves in that much danger, but does not require them to attack the giants. And, in these situations, there is rarely just one path for them to choose. As you say, there are different play styles. However, PCs often randomly wandering into monsters that are likely to kill them unless they can flee is not a style I've seen work well. It is almost always frustrating to the players. And one more thing to consider: The DMG suggests easy and medium encounters. Why? After all, they're not intended to threaten the lives of the PCs? Why have a "gimme" encounter? Because you can use these encounters to tell a good story. The challenge for the PCs may not be killing the enemy before the enemy kills them... it might be stopping the goblins before they run off with the farmer's kid. It might be preventing the dryad from wasting tie that the PCs want to spend hunting an enemy. There are a lot of great story moments where the PCs can feel like great heroes - not victims struggling at every turn to survive. [/QUOTE]
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"Run away! Run away!" ... what if they don't?
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