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"Run away! Run away!" ... what if they don't?
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7453318" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I don't think you can absolve the DM of all responsibility. I'm not saying that the players are not contributing...not at all. They're making decisions that have led to this point. </p><p></p><p>However, so has the DM. Now, I'm not advocating for never allowing a dangerous situation to occur. In the above example you gave of the wizard, he rushed in without being careful. And he got smacked for it. So he's down and needs to make death saving throws. Most likely, the rest of the party will rescue him in time. And if they don't, then yeah, he's done.....that's on them not to get to a fallen companion. So I wouldn't really worry about this situation. This is a perfectly acceptable level of risk. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think that I'd feel the need to offer information. But I also don't tend to make my players "gather information" like that. Usually, they arrive in a town, and rather then roleplaying each encouner with each NPC, I give them a list of NPCs and some other local details. This all constitutes the level of knowledge that I'd expect new arrivals to simply absorb in town. I don't want to waste time having them interview every NPC to try and find out what answers are dangerous. </p><p></p><p>I also have never been a fan of being so strict about this stuff. No matter what a DM conveys about the world, he cannot fully replicate actually being there. So I don't want to punish the players because they didn't think of something that their characters absolutely would have. </p><p></p><p>So I just give them some local info upfront so they can make those informed decisions. Now, the level of info they get will vary from place to place, it's all very dependent on the local situation and their view of outsiders, and all of that kind of stuff. </p><p></p><p>But even if that info wasn't imparted to them, if they wandered into dangerous territory (the Giant Hills being a name that I think would give them an idea, but hey sometimes players am dumb) then I think I'd give them a bit of a clue. Maybe the first random encounter would be something obviously dangerous, and easily avoided. A Giant and his Dire Bear companion seen from afar....the PCs can avoid it easily enough. If they don't take that as a hint that they've wandered into dangerous territory, then I won't warn them again. </p><p></p><p>If they engage the Giant and the Bear, then I'll do what I can to impress upon them the dangerous decision they've made. Have the Giant knock a PC out and send him flying...giving the party a chance to grab the downed PC and high tail it. The Giant would likely not feel the need to pursue since all he was doing was defending himself. </p><p></p><p>It'll obviously vary by encounter and circumstance, but there are always things the DM can do to mitigate the chance of a TPK without totally changing things. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you agree that the DM can choose to have an encounter or not? </p><p></p><p>This is just one of the decision points along a series. Ultimately, and I am talking about 5E here if that was not clear, there's virtually no way to have a TPK without the DM making certain decisions along the way. There's very little chance of a one shot kill, except on a crit at very low levels. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So are Arya and Sansa, both on the scene and still alive.....so no TPK. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7453318, member: 6785785"] I don't think you can absolve the DM of all responsibility. I'm not saying that the players are not contributing...not at all. They're making decisions that have led to this point. However, so has the DM. Now, I'm not advocating for never allowing a dangerous situation to occur. In the above example you gave of the wizard, he rushed in without being careful. And he got smacked for it. So he's down and needs to make death saving throws. Most likely, the rest of the party will rescue him in time. And if they don't, then yeah, he's done.....that's on them not to get to a fallen companion. So I wouldn't really worry about this situation. This is a perfectly acceptable level of risk. I don't think that I'd feel the need to offer information. But I also don't tend to make my players "gather information" like that. Usually, they arrive in a town, and rather then roleplaying each encouner with each NPC, I give them a list of NPCs and some other local details. This all constitutes the level of knowledge that I'd expect new arrivals to simply absorb in town. I don't want to waste time having them interview every NPC to try and find out what answers are dangerous. I also have never been a fan of being so strict about this stuff. No matter what a DM conveys about the world, he cannot fully replicate actually being there. So I don't want to punish the players because they didn't think of something that their characters absolutely would have. So I just give them some local info upfront so they can make those informed decisions. Now, the level of info they get will vary from place to place, it's all very dependent on the local situation and their view of outsiders, and all of that kind of stuff. But even if that info wasn't imparted to them, if they wandered into dangerous territory (the Giant Hills being a name that I think would give them an idea, but hey sometimes players am dumb) then I think I'd give them a bit of a clue. Maybe the first random encounter would be something obviously dangerous, and easily avoided. A Giant and his Dire Bear companion seen from afar....the PCs can avoid it easily enough. If they don't take that as a hint that they've wandered into dangerous territory, then I won't warn them again. If they engage the Giant and the Bear, then I'll do what I can to impress upon them the dangerous decision they've made. Have the Giant knock a PC out and send him flying...giving the party a chance to grab the downed PC and high tail it. The Giant would likely not feel the need to pursue since all he was doing was defending himself. It'll obviously vary by encounter and circumstance, but there are always things the DM can do to mitigate the chance of a TPK without totally changing things. So you agree that the DM can choose to have an encounter or not? This is just one of the decision points along a series. Ultimately, and I am talking about 5E here if that was not clear, there's virtually no way to have a TPK without the DM making certain decisions along the way. There's very little chance of a one shot kill, except on a crit at very low levels. So are Arya and Sansa, both on the scene and still alive.....so no TPK. :p [/QUOTE]
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