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"Run away! Run away!" ... what if they don't?
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7453494" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>Yeah, sorry...that was unclear on my part. The goal of seeing resolution of the stories is more a character goal than a player goal, although the players all want to see their character goals realized. But they know there is a chance that may not happen. </p><p></p><p>There's no pre-determined narrative in play. There are ideas that I have on where things will go, but those are largely dependent on the players' decisions. So a TPK wouldn't disrupt that goal, so much as I think that it disrupts both of the meta goals that you sited, at least for my group. They're at 11th level and well invested in their characters and the stories we've created so far. The campaign has a feeling of being "theirs" to the point that if I wiped them out and then they used alternate characters to resume, it would not feel the same. This campaign is THEIR story alone. </p><p></p><p>I hope that's clear. </p><p></p><p>And they have lost 3 party members along the way, not to mention several NPC allies....so it's by no means a case of me taking things easy on them. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My game is far less pre-determined than that. It consists of many "situations", but most are brought to the game by the players. Others are ideas I have. None of the outcomes are predetermined, although there are obvious avenues they can take. I didn't mean plotline as in an adventure path like narrative that's largely preset. More like "will the wizard avenge his mentor by slaying the mentor's treacherous one time apprentice?" or "will the elven ranger help reestablish his tribe?" Things could go either way on those...it depends on what the players decide to do. But those stories will be a part of the campaign for sure, unless one of the players decided that their character no longer cared about the goal...but that's not likely. </p><p></p><p>So I think any single character goal may not be realized, and that's a risk that's certainly in play. However, for all of them to amount to nothing because of a TPK....yeah, I think that would be too much. And it's just unnecessary. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I get you for the most part. I think the risk of death is understood in my campaign. I'm reasonably certain my players would never consider a TPK as something that simply would not happen. I've never said anything like that to them. And as I said, we've lost 3 PCs. So I think the stakes are clear at the campaign level. </p><p></p><p>But at the individual encounter level....that's where I think being a little vague makes sense. You can try and convey the motives of the enemies, and sometimes it may be clear as could be. But many times it woudl not be clear. The PCs come across a group of drow in the underdark and are discovered and attacked; nothing inherent in that description that says the drow absolutely want to kill the party. They may want slaves, they may want to question them, they may have mistaken them for other enemies.....any number of things. Other times, an enemy may be clearly out to kill and only kill. I think having it vary makes sense. </p><p></p><p>If a DM decides to not go for a TPK, I'd say he's no more easing up than one who decides to TPK is gunning for the PCs. Sure, I think that the terms may apply to some extent, or they do on the surface, but I think either designation is a bit too simplistic for something where there is a lot more thought going into the decision.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7453494, member: 6785785"] Yeah, sorry...that was unclear on my part. The goal of seeing resolution of the stories is more a character goal than a player goal, although the players all want to see their character goals realized. But they know there is a chance that may not happen. There's no pre-determined narrative in play. There are ideas that I have on where things will go, but those are largely dependent on the players' decisions. So a TPK wouldn't disrupt that goal, so much as I think that it disrupts both of the meta goals that you sited, at least for my group. They're at 11th level and well invested in their characters and the stories we've created so far. The campaign has a feeling of being "theirs" to the point that if I wiped them out and then they used alternate characters to resume, it would not feel the same. This campaign is THEIR story alone. I hope that's clear. And they have lost 3 party members along the way, not to mention several NPC allies....so it's by no means a case of me taking things easy on them. My game is far less pre-determined than that. It consists of many "situations", but most are brought to the game by the players. Others are ideas I have. None of the outcomes are predetermined, although there are obvious avenues they can take. I didn't mean plotline as in an adventure path like narrative that's largely preset. More like "will the wizard avenge his mentor by slaying the mentor's treacherous one time apprentice?" or "will the elven ranger help reestablish his tribe?" Things could go either way on those...it depends on what the players decide to do. But those stories will be a part of the campaign for sure, unless one of the players decided that their character no longer cared about the goal...but that's not likely. So I think any single character goal may not be realized, and that's a risk that's certainly in play. However, for all of them to amount to nothing because of a TPK....yeah, I think that would be too much. And it's just unnecessary. I get you for the most part. I think the risk of death is understood in my campaign. I'm reasonably certain my players would never consider a TPK as something that simply would not happen. I've never said anything like that to them. And as I said, we've lost 3 PCs. So I think the stakes are clear at the campaign level. But at the individual encounter level....that's where I think being a little vague makes sense. You can try and convey the motives of the enemies, and sometimes it may be clear as could be. But many times it woudl not be clear. The PCs come across a group of drow in the underdark and are discovered and attacked; nothing inherent in that description that says the drow absolutely want to kill the party. They may want slaves, they may want to question them, they may have mistaken them for other enemies.....any number of things. Other times, an enemy may be clearly out to kill and only kill. I think having it vary makes sense. If a DM decides to not go for a TPK, I'd say he's no more easing up than one who decides to TPK is gunning for the PCs. Sure, I think that the terms may apply to some extent, or they do on the surface, but I think either designation is a bit too simplistic for something where there is a lot more thought going into the decision. [/QUOTE]
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