Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Running dungeons with high level PCs (my players don't read - and yes, I'll know!)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Morrus" data-source="post: 1249621" data-attributes="member: 1"><p>I'm running Rappan Athuk right now (halfway through RA2). My group started the dungeon at level 5, and they are now about level 10. I'm very inexperienced when it comes to higher-level play, and wonder how to handle all of the various abilities and spells possessed by characters of such levels.</p><p> </p><p>The problem is that at this level, they have access to teleportation, polymorphs, flight and other useful magics. This pretty much nullifies a lot of what makes Rappan Athuk (or any other dungeon) so deadly - it occurs to me that dungeon-crawls aren't appropriate for a higher level party.</p><p> </p><p>Some examples - RA has maze sections. It attempts to make this harder be making it a shifting maze. Unfortunately, the PCs are able to turn into elementals or umber hulks, thereby pretty much circumventing the mazes. The same goes for cliffs and/or chasms - the climb skill is redundant with teleportation, characters which can dig slanted tunnels through a cliff in minutes, that sort of thing.</p><p> </p><p>Those of you familiar with RA may rememeber the "White Corridor". Pretty nasty to walk through. Not so bad when you turn into an earth elemental or an umber hulk and just go around it. </p><p> </p><p>These types of abilities pretty much nullify the "dungeon-structure" (i.e. walls, rooms, tunnels). Of course, you can come up with convenient things which prevent them from doing this all the time, but it becomes obvious you're doing it, and players feel like your just not allowing them to use their abilities. How would a cleric feel if you said "uh, no you can't heal", or a fighter if you told him "no, hitting things isn't possible"?</p><p> </p><p>So how does one deal with such things? At this level, PCs can create impregnable hideaways within the dungeon, carved out of the very rock. They can rest as long as they want. If you're really mean and keep hitting them with umber hulks, purple worms, and other critters who aren't stopped by such physical barriers, they use extended rope-tricks and the like to hide for as long as they need.</p><p> </p><p>The result is that the dungeon doesn't work like a dungeon. Sure, individual encounters are challenging, but the general exploration/attrition factor of the dungeon isn't there. With decent divinations (an extended arcane eye, for example), PCs are able to map out entire levels before venturing into them. They teleport back to the city after each encounter, then teleport back to where they left.</p><p> </p><p>Essentially, the dungeon feels much more like a computer game with a quick-save feature than a dangerous, mysterious dungeon. That's not the fault of the module, of course - I'm just inexperienced at higher level play.</p><p> </p><p>Any suggestions on how to keep the dungeon feeling dangerous, claustrophobic and exciting? How to keep that sense of "what's around the next corner?" without just arbitrarily nullifying various abilities with convenient plot-devices?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Morrus, post: 1249621, member: 1"] I'm running Rappan Athuk right now (halfway through RA2). My group started the dungeon at level 5, and they are now about level 10. I'm very inexperienced when it comes to higher-level play, and wonder how to handle all of the various abilities and spells possessed by characters of such levels. The problem is that at this level, they have access to teleportation, polymorphs, flight and other useful magics. This pretty much nullifies a lot of what makes Rappan Athuk (or any other dungeon) so deadly - it occurs to me that dungeon-crawls aren't appropriate for a higher level party. Some examples - RA has maze sections. It attempts to make this harder be making it a shifting maze. Unfortunately, the PCs are able to turn into elementals or umber hulks, thereby pretty much circumventing the mazes. The same goes for cliffs and/or chasms - the climb skill is redundant with teleportation, characters which can dig slanted tunnels through a cliff in minutes, that sort of thing. Those of you familiar with RA may rememeber the "White Corridor". Pretty nasty to walk through. Not so bad when you turn into an earth elemental or an umber hulk and just go around it. These types of abilities pretty much nullify the "dungeon-structure" (i.e. walls, rooms, tunnels). Of course, you can come up with convenient things which prevent them from doing this all the time, but it becomes obvious you're doing it, and players feel like your just not allowing them to use their abilities. How would a cleric feel if you said "uh, no you can't heal", or a fighter if you told him "no, hitting things isn't possible"? So how does one deal with such things? At this level, PCs can create impregnable hideaways within the dungeon, carved out of the very rock. They can rest as long as they want. If you're really mean and keep hitting them with umber hulks, purple worms, and other critters who aren't stopped by such physical barriers, they use extended rope-tricks and the like to hide for as long as they need. The result is that the dungeon doesn't work like a dungeon. Sure, individual encounters are challenging, but the general exploration/attrition factor of the dungeon isn't there. With decent divinations (an extended arcane eye, for example), PCs are able to map out entire levels before venturing into them. They teleport back to the city after each encounter, then teleport back to where they left. Essentially, the dungeon feels much more like a computer game with a quick-save feature than a dangerous, mysterious dungeon. That's not the fault of the module, of course - I'm just inexperienced at higher level play. Any suggestions on how to keep the dungeon feeling dangerous, claustrophobic and exciting? How to keep that sense of "what's around the next corner?" without just arbitrarily nullifying various abilities with convenient plot-devices? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Running dungeons with high level PCs (my players don't read - and yes, I'll know!)
Top