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Running Epic Tier Campaigns
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<blockquote data-quote="SlyFlourish" data-source="post: 5231666" data-attributes="member: 54840"><p>Really excellent topic and write up!</p><p></p><p>I've been running a 1 to 30 campaign over the past two and a half years or so. Our group is now level 26 and I've noticed all of the things you've mentioned. So far there hasn't been any serious exploitation of one or more powers that destroys every battle, however, which has been nice.</p><p></p><p>There are three problems I've run up against the most and I've come up with house rules to fix them.</p><p></p><p><strong>Solos getting stun-locked</strong></p><p></p><p>First, locking up Solos, as you mentioned, has been a big problem. We refer to this as the bucket-on-the-head. Long ago, even early paragon, I've had ways to deal with this. My most recent favorite way to deal with it is the Brutal Shakeoff or the Anti-hero powers:</p><p></p><p><strong>Brutal Shakeoff:</strong> as a free action, this creature can take it's level in damage to remove any one single status effect.</p><p></p><p><strong>Anti-hero:</strong> When stunned, this creature instead loses its next standard action and grants combat advantage. When dazed, this creature instead loses its next minor action and grants combat advantage.</p><p></p><p>Both of these work pretty well. The Anti-hero doesn't handle other debilitating attacks like blind and unconsious, so Brutal Shakeoff seems to work better.</p><p></p><p><strong>Monsters deal too little damage</strong></p><p></p><p>I remember reading the original WOTC article about 4e that showed the Pit Fiend. My original reaction was "wow, this guy doesn't do a lot of damage!" I figured, though, that the math for 4e was very different so I didn't think much of it, but my initial reaction was right on. Creatures above level 10 really don't do enough damage. I've been houseruling this a bunch of different ways but Greg Bilsland had probably the best and easiest solution: double the static damage of monsters above level 10 or triple it if they're a brute. That's easy enough to do. He wrote about it here:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://gregbilsland.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/more-on-monsters/" target="_blank">More on Monsters I « In the Eye of the Beholder</a></p><p></p><p><strong>Players resist too much elemental damage</strong></p><p></p><p>The third thing I notice a lot since level 10 or so is how much of an effect player resistances can have on a battle. I had a battle with a bunch of Fey Lingerers against my level 15ish group. They completely walked away from the battle without a scratch. The amount of damage the lingerers did was already low but it being all Necrotic and the entire PC party having resist 10 necrotic made it far too easy.</p><p></p><p>At the epic tier, this is even worse. Most PCs will have resist 10 to resist 15 to all types of elemental damage, especially necrotic. </p><p></p><p>Finding creative ways to deal with resistances has been really hard for me. On the one hand, I want players to feel like those resistances are really helping them. On the other, I want them to still be threatened by creatures who inflict these types of damage.</p><p></p><p>I have a few ways to deal with this but none of them are ideal:</p><p></p><p><strong>Increase elemental damage</strong> One easy way is to increase elemental damage by 5 at paragon and 10 at epic. This will break through most of the resistances but still make the player feel like he or she got away with something. The problem comes in if you hit someone who doesn't have that form of resistance and now they get hit way too hard.</p><p></p><p><strong>Environmental Effects that Eliminate Resistance</strong> Another way I've been dealing with resistances is to add some form of environmental effect that eliminates resistances. For example, a cursed altar in the center of a room might radiate a general necrotic presence that eliminates necrotic resistances until three successful heal, arcane, or religion checks eliminate the presence.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, a pool of lava or a bog of poisonous gas might eliminate fire, poison, or acid resistance when characters begin within it.</p><p></p><p><strong>Monster powers that eliminate resistances</strong> The third technique I've used is to add effects to monster powers that eliminate resistances. For example, a red dragon's bite would eliminate fire resistances (save ends) instead of doing extra fire damage. A lich's aura 5 might eliminiate necrotic resistances as long as one is within the aurea. The black dragon's cloud of darkness might eliminate acid resistances. This type of attack works well when it replaces another status effect like weaken, daze, or stun - effects that simply slow down combat. Eliminating resistances, on the other hand, keeps threat high without slowing down battles.</p><p></p><p><strong>Battles run too slow</strong></p><p></p><p>With so many powers, so many items, and so many feats; players are going to take longer to run their turns than they did at the heroic tier. The best way to speed up this combat is to make sure they know their characters really well. This means one should generally avoid beginning campaigns at high level, instead, let the campaign reach that level on its own. If you're going to run one-shot adventures, run them in the heroic tier or specifically generate very simple epic-tier characters without a lot of options.</p><p></p><p>The other thing to keep in mind is that dishing out damage speeds up combat. Avoid things that reduce this damage such as variable resistances, monster healing, and damage-reducing status effects like stun, daze, and weaken.</p><p></p><p>A quick way to deal with stuns, dazes, and weakens, is to give players a chance to shake these off by taking a bunch of damage instead. For example, a character might be able to shake a daze at the beginning of his or her turn by instead taking ongoing 10 psychic damage. You'll have to play with the numbers to get them right.</p><p></p><p><strong>In conclusion</strong></p><p></p><p>Running an epic tier campaign is a lot of fun. We get to use our biggest miniatures. We get to run games in the most fantastic areas. We get to sic our most powerful monsters against our PCs. Running an epic tier adventure, however, takes a fair bit of understanding about what you might face. Keep this in mind as you prepare to run one.</p><p></p><p>Thanks again for this thread, it's excellent.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SlyFlourish, post: 5231666, member: 54840"] Really excellent topic and write up! I've been running a 1 to 30 campaign over the past two and a half years or so. Our group is now level 26 and I've noticed all of the things you've mentioned. So far there hasn't been any serious exploitation of one or more powers that destroys every battle, however, which has been nice. There are three problems I've run up against the most and I've come up with house rules to fix them. [B]Solos getting stun-locked[/B] First, locking up Solos, as you mentioned, has been a big problem. We refer to this as the bucket-on-the-head. Long ago, even early paragon, I've had ways to deal with this. My most recent favorite way to deal with it is the Brutal Shakeoff or the Anti-hero powers: [B]Brutal Shakeoff:[/B] as a free action, this creature can take it's level in damage to remove any one single status effect. [B]Anti-hero:[/B] When stunned, this creature instead loses its next standard action and grants combat advantage. When dazed, this creature instead loses its next minor action and grants combat advantage. Both of these work pretty well. The Anti-hero doesn't handle other debilitating attacks like blind and unconsious, so Brutal Shakeoff seems to work better. [B]Monsters deal too little damage[/B] I remember reading the original WOTC article about 4e that showed the Pit Fiend. My original reaction was "wow, this guy doesn't do a lot of damage!" I figured, though, that the math for 4e was very different so I didn't think much of it, but my initial reaction was right on. Creatures above level 10 really don't do enough damage. I've been houseruling this a bunch of different ways but Greg Bilsland had probably the best and easiest solution: double the static damage of monsters above level 10 or triple it if they're a brute. That's easy enough to do. He wrote about it here: [url=http://gregbilsland.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/more-on-monsters/]More on Monsters I « In the Eye of the Beholder[/url] [B]Players resist too much elemental damage[/B] The third thing I notice a lot since level 10 or so is how much of an effect player resistances can have on a battle. I had a battle with a bunch of Fey Lingerers against my level 15ish group. They completely walked away from the battle without a scratch. The amount of damage the lingerers did was already low but it being all Necrotic and the entire PC party having resist 10 necrotic made it far too easy. At the epic tier, this is even worse. Most PCs will have resist 10 to resist 15 to all types of elemental damage, especially necrotic. Finding creative ways to deal with resistances has been really hard for me. On the one hand, I want players to feel like those resistances are really helping them. On the other, I want them to still be threatened by creatures who inflict these types of damage. I have a few ways to deal with this but none of them are ideal: [B]Increase elemental damage[/B] One easy way is to increase elemental damage by 5 at paragon and 10 at epic. This will break through most of the resistances but still make the player feel like he or she got away with something. The problem comes in if you hit someone who doesn't have that form of resistance and now they get hit way too hard. [B]Environmental Effects that Eliminate Resistance[/B] Another way I've been dealing with resistances is to add some form of environmental effect that eliminates resistances. For example, a cursed altar in the center of a room might radiate a general necrotic presence that eliminates necrotic resistances until three successful heal, arcane, or religion checks eliminate the presence. Likewise, a pool of lava or a bog of poisonous gas might eliminate fire, poison, or acid resistance when characters begin within it. [B]Monster powers that eliminate resistances[/B] The third technique I've used is to add effects to monster powers that eliminate resistances. For example, a red dragon's bite would eliminate fire resistances (save ends) instead of doing extra fire damage. A lich's aura 5 might eliminiate necrotic resistances as long as one is within the aurea. The black dragon's cloud of darkness might eliminate acid resistances. This type of attack works well when it replaces another status effect like weaken, daze, or stun - effects that simply slow down combat. Eliminating resistances, on the other hand, keeps threat high without slowing down battles. [B]Battles run too slow[/B] With so many powers, so many items, and so many feats; players are going to take longer to run their turns than they did at the heroic tier. The best way to speed up this combat is to make sure they know their characters really well. This means one should generally avoid beginning campaigns at high level, instead, let the campaign reach that level on its own. If you're going to run one-shot adventures, run them in the heroic tier or specifically generate very simple epic-tier characters without a lot of options. The other thing to keep in mind is that dishing out damage speeds up combat. Avoid things that reduce this damage such as variable resistances, monster healing, and damage-reducing status effects like stun, daze, and weaken. A quick way to deal with stuns, dazes, and weakens, is to give players a chance to shake these off by taking a bunch of damage instead. For example, a character might be able to shake a daze at the beginning of his or her turn by instead taking ongoing 10 psychic damage. You'll have to play with the numbers to get them right. [B]In conclusion[/B] Running an epic tier campaign is a lot of fun. We get to use our biggest miniatures. We get to run games in the most fantastic areas. We get to sic our most powerful monsters against our PCs. Running an epic tier adventure, however, takes a fair bit of understanding about what you might face. Keep this in mind as you prepare to run one. Thanks again for this thread, it's excellent. [/QUOTE]
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