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Ryan Dancey on 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 3001867" data-attributes="member: 158"><p>It's a perfectly valid question -- My perspective is that they are there to be used, rather than to sit there judged too difficult to be used. Same reason that high-level play was revised in the first place from 2E to 3E -- the designers wanted high-level play to be more approachable and not used by only a disparate few. If a large number of DM's (which I've gathered from years of listening to the complaints) find them difficult to use out of the box, then that speaks to me for it being too complex, and needing work. Otherwise, there's no point to their existance. It's why even now, WotC revises their monster stat blocks, and their magic item stat blocks, trying to make the teeming mass of info more palatable to players and DMs. Until a better way comes along for the flagship game, I'm all for a little fudging now and again to make a creative, fun playable session. I trust my DMs, just as they trust me when they're on that side of the table, and it works well for us. Like Geron says, its untrustable DMs that make the whole previous paradigm seem so untenable to a large portion of the player base. On the other hand, to that portion of the player base for which a trustable DM is a reality, they find a DM'less or a DMing situation where all rules creativity taken away just as untenable.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Side example: Is a DM a bad DM for introducing a situation, spell, or magical effect that player characters have no rules for reproducing? For example, there are no 3E rules I'm aware of for floating cities. There's a palace in a Xen'drik sourcebook which floats above a ruined city; there's no means of support, and ancient Giant magic holds it up there. Should players feel cheated if they can't find in the adventure the means to duplicate the floating palace, or to take control of it and fly it somewhere?</p><p></p><p>Second example: Should a player feel cheated if an NPC does something that seems impossible by the rules? If someone shoots a spell at them that hits an impossible AC, and it does damage with no save, for instance? If it's later revealed to be perfectly legal after the session (for example, it's a magic missile with funky colors, and the player didn't think to make a spellcraft check), would it be any more cheating from the DM than the flying palace?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Henry, post: 3001867, member: 158"] It's a perfectly valid question -- My perspective is that they are there to be used, rather than to sit there judged too difficult to be used. Same reason that high-level play was revised in the first place from 2E to 3E -- the designers wanted high-level play to be more approachable and not used by only a disparate few. If a large number of DM's (which I've gathered from years of listening to the complaints) find them difficult to use out of the box, then that speaks to me for it being too complex, and needing work. Otherwise, there's no point to their existance. It's why even now, WotC revises their monster stat blocks, and their magic item stat blocks, trying to make the teeming mass of info more palatable to players and DMs. Until a better way comes along for the flagship game, I'm all for a little fudging now and again to make a creative, fun playable session. I trust my DMs, just as they trust me when they're on that side of the table, and it works well for us. Like Geron says, its untrustable DMs that make the whole previous paradigm seem so untenable to a large portion of the player base. On the other hand, to that portion of the player base for which a trustable DM is a reality, they find a DM'less or a DMing situation where all rules creativity taken away just as untenable. Side example: Is a DM a bad DM for introducing a situation, spell, or magical effect that player characters have no rules for reproducing? For example, there are no 3E rules I'm aware of for floating cities. There's a palace in a Xen'drik sourcebook which floats above a ruined city; there's no means of support, and ancient Giant magic holds it up there. Should players feel cheated if they can't find in the adventure the means to duplicate the floating palace, or to take control of it and fly it somewhere? Second example: Should a player feel cheated if an NPC does something that seems impossible by the rules? If someone shoots a spell at them that hits an impossible AC, and it does damage with no save, for instance? If it's later revealed to be perfectly legal after the session (for example, it's a magic missile with funky colors, and the player didn't think to make a spellcraft check), would it be any more cheating from the DM than the flying palace? [/QUOTE]
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