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Ryan Dancey speaks - the Most Successful Year for Fantasy RPGaming ever. However...
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2812618" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>I think it is fair to compare the top CRPGs to the average TRPGs. That is the choice that most actual PLAYERs face. Top quality CRPGs are available to them all simply by spending the money to pick up Baldur's Gate II or World of Warcraft (or Neverwinter Nights and then spend the effort to pick up good modules like Adam Miller's Shadowlords and Dreamcatcher campaigns or the first two mods of the paladin trilogy (Twilight and Midnight)). There is no reason for someone interested in the CRPG experience to pick an "average" CRPG. On the other hand, the typical player will only be able to find a typical gaming group. If the typical player found an unusually good gaming group, he would be an unusual player rather than a typical one. The question then is how good the "typical" DM/gaming group is.</p><p></p><p>However, it is probably not fair to lump single player CRPGs and MMORPGs together. From what I can tell, games like World of Warcraft and Dark Age of Camelot offer an inherently different experience than Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights, etc. The massively multiplayer games have to accomodate a large player base and offer them a stable and persistent world. If Drizzt101, Spastastic, and 133tOmega fail to hold back the orcish hordes at blackrock pass, the other players won't all wake up and discover that the town they have been using as their base has been burned to the ground and the orcs are pushing on towards the kingdom's capitol. As far as I can tell, MMORPGs are rather like a Star Trek episode in that respect. When it's done, everything has to be put back more or less where it was. PC stats, equipment and reputations can change but there won't be substantial change in the game world because of PC actions. Nor will their be substantial influence over the direction of the game world. A few players may gain influence over portions of the online community in guilds, etc, but that option is only open to a few players and it takes as much work and skill to accomplish as attaining real life influence in a hobby organization does (because that's basically what it is). In a single-player CRPG or a TRPG, on the other hand, it is quite possible for PCs' success or failure to dramatically affect the setting and for PCs to gain influence over the setting by attaining power and position.</p><p></p><p>I think that TRPGs have a significant edge over most CRPGs in that last regard. (And MMORPGs don't compare to either in this regard as their massively multiplayer nature prevents meaningful impact on the game world other than success ensuring that the "reset" button is pushed). Other than the standard "utter failure" and "complete success" scenarios, I think the best CRPGs are probably equivalent to the lower tier TRPGs in that regard. In Fallout, Fallout II, and Baldur's Gate II, you could impact a variety of aspects of the setting. You got the summary of all the changes at the end of the game. But there was no option to woo Nalia in BG II. You had your pick of Jaheira, Aerie, and Viconia. You could convert Sarevok to Chaotic Good if you worked really hard at it, but it didn't impact the ending description at all. Without pursuing the romance option, you couldn't exert any influence over Viconia. Interesting characters like the fallen paladin Reginald (IIRC) from the paladin quest simply disappeared--there was no possibility to arrange for his atonement and resitution. In Fallout, your impact on, for instance, the New California Republic was limited to whether or not you completed one or two quests. Any more subtle impact on it was impossible. Even a moderately skilled DM can respond more precisely to a PC's actions. (The programmers are at a significant disadvantage because they have to imagine the several most likely interactions and apply a consequence to each of them--a DM only has to worry about what actually happens in the game and can hear and see the tone and subleties in it so he can get a vastly superior response with less skill than the programmer can).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 2812618, member: 3146"] I think it is fair to compare the top CRPGs to the average TRPGs. That is the choice that most actual PLAYERs face. Top quality CRPGs are available to them all simply by spending the money to pick up Baldur's Gate II or World of Warcraft (or Neverwinter Nights and then spend the effort to pick up good modules like Adam Miller's Shadowlords and Dreamcatcher campaigns or the first two mods of the paladin trilogy (Twilight and Midnight)). There is no reason for someone interested in the CRPG experience to pick an "average" CRPG. On the other hand, the typical player will only be able to find a typical gaming group. If the typical player found an unusually good gaming group, he would be an unusual player rather than a typical one. The question then is how good the "typical" DM/gaming group is. However, it is probably not fair to lump single player CRPGs and MMORPGs together. From what I can tell, games like World of Warcraft and Dark Age of Camelot offer an inherently different experience than Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights, etc. The massively multiplayer games have to accomodate a large player base and offer them a stable and persistent world. If Drizzt101, Spastastic, and 133tOmega fail to hold back the orcish hordes at blackrock pass, the other players won't all wake up and discover that the town they have been using as their base has been burned to the ground and the orcs are pushing on towards the kingdom's capitol. As far as I can tell, MMORPGs are rather like a Star Trek episode in that respect. When it's done, everything has to be put back more or less where it was. PC stats, equipment and reputations can change but there won't be substantial change in the game world because of PC actions. Nor will their be substantial influence over the direction of the game world. A few players may gain influence over portions of the online community in guilds, etc, but that option is only open to a few players and it takes as much work and skill to accomplish as attaining real life influence in a hobby organization does (because that's basically what it is). In a single-player CRPG or a TRPG, on the other hand, it is quite possible for PCs' success or failure to dramatically affect the setting and for PCs to gain influence over the setting by attaining power and position. I think that TRPGs have a significant edge over most CRPGs in that last regard. (And MMORPGs don't compare to either in this regard as their massively multiplayer nature prevents meaningful impact on the game world other than success ensuring that the "reset" button is pushed). Other than the standard "utter failure" and "complete success" scenarios, I think the best CRPGs are probably equivalent to the lower tier TRPGs in that regard. In Fallout, Fallout II, and Baldur's Gate II, you could impact a variety of aspects of the setting. You got the summary of all the changes at the end of the game. But there was no option to woo Nalia in BG II. You had your pick of Jaheira, Aerie, and Viconia. You could convert Sarevok to Chaotic Good if you worked really hard at it, but it didn't impact the ending description at all. Without pursuing the romance option, you couldn't exert any influence over Viconia. Interesting characters like the fallen paladin Reginald (IIRC) from the paladin quest simply disappeared--there was no possibility to arrange for his atonement and resitution. In Fallout, your impact on, for instance, the New California Republic was limited to whether or not you completed one or two quests. Any more subtle impact on it was impossible. Even a moderately skilled DM can respond more precisely to a PC's actions. (The programmers are at a significant disadvantage because they have to imagine the several most likely interactions and apply a consequence to each of them--a DM only has to worry about what actually happens in the game and can hear and see the tone and subleties in it so he can get a vastly superior response with less skill than the programmer can). [/QUOTE]
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