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S. Monster CRs by Spell Level and Alternate Summon Monster List Proposal
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<blockquote data-quote="mercucio" data-source="post: 1644861" data-attributes="member: 7928"><p>Based on the chart and list given above you can see a typical summon monster spell summons a monster whose CR is X less than the minimum wizard level required to cast the summon monster spell as follows:</p><p></p><p>[CODE]</p><p>SPELL NAME CR CL MOD</p><p>Summon monster I 1/2 1st -1</p><p>Summon monster II 1 3rd -2</p><p>Summon monster III 2 5th -3</p><p>Summon monster IV 3-4 7th -4</p><p>Summon monster V 4-5 9th -5</p><p>Summon monster VI 6-7 11th -5</p><p>Summon monster VII 7-9 13th -6</p><p>Summon monster VIII 9-11 15th -6</p><p>Summon monster IX 11-12 17th -6</p><p>[/CODE]</p><p></p><p>You will not the poor scaling in power level per increased spell level. A creature summoned from the <em>summon monster VI</em> list (CR 6-7) isn't even a speed bump to party of four 13th level characters. To be honest it isn't really even a speed bump to one 13th level character. And the disparity gets worse as the level of the summon monster increases.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To remedy this I offer the following alternate guidelines for determining what creature CRs should be assigned to each <em>summon monster</em> level.</p><p></p><p>[CODE]</p><p>SPELL NAME CR Summonable </p><p>Summon monster I 1/2</p><p>Summon monster II 1</p><p>Summon monster III 2-3</p><p>Summon monster IV 4-5</p><p>Summon monster V 6-7</p><p>Summon monster VI 8-9</p><p>Summon monster VII 10-11</p><p>Summon monster VIII 12-13</p><p>Summon monster IX 14</p><p>[/CODE]</p><p></p><p><em>Note: If a monster has the ability the cast spells, the highest level spell it is capable to casting should be two or more levels lower the level of the summon monster spell used to summon it. i.e. summon monster I - no spells; II - no spells; III - 1st level spells; IV - 2nd level spells; V - 3rd level spells; VI - 4th level spells; VII - 5th level spells; VIII - 6th level spells; IX - 7th level spells.</em></p><p></p><p>Essentially the CR range for summon monster IV-IX level breaks down to the minimum caster level -4.</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><strong>Alternate Summon Monster I-IX Monster Lists</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>1st Level</strong> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial dog (1/3) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial eagle (1/2) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial owl (1/4) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial giant fire beetle (1/3) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial porpoise1 (1/2) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial badger (1/2) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Celestial monkey (1/6) Any good</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish dire rat (1/3) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish raven (1/6) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish monstrous centipede, Medium (1/2) NE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Small (1/2) NE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish hawk (1/3) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish monstrous spider, Small (1/2) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish octopus1 (1) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish snake, Small viper (1/2) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>2nd Level</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Elemental, Small (any) (1) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Formian worker (1/2) LN</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Lemure (devil) (1) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>3rd Level</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Archon, lantern (2) LG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>Cervidal (guardinal) (2) NG</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Dretch (demon) (2) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Elemental, Medium (any) (3) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Formian, warrior (3) LN</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Hell hound (3) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Imp (devil) or Quasit (demon) (2) LE or CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Magmin (3) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Mephit (any) (3) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Salamander, flamebrother (3) any evil</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Yeth hound (3) NE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>4th Level (4-5)</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Achaierai (5) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Archon, hound (4) LG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Barghest (4) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Djinni (genie) (5) CG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Devil, bearded (5) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Howler(3) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Janni (genie) (4) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Shadow mastiff (5) NE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>5th Level (6-7)</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Babau (demon) (6) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Barghest, greater (5) NG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Belker (air) (7) NG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Bralani (eladrin) (6) CG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Chaos beast (7) CN</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Devil, chain (6) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Elemental, Large (any) (5) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Fiendish girallon (7) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Formian, taskmaster (7) LN</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Hellcat (7) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Invisible stalker (7) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Lillend (7) CG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Lupinal (guardinal) (5) NG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Salamander, average (6) any evil</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Xill (6) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>6th Level (8-9)</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Avoral (guardinal) (9) NG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Devil, bone (9) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Efreeti (genie, no <em>wish</em>) (8) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Elemental, Huge (any) (7) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>Movadic deva (angel) (9) NG</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Night hag (9) NE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Vrock (demon) (9) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>7th Level (10-11)</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Bebilith (demon) (10) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Couatl (10) LG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Elemental, greater (any) (9) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Formian, myrmarch (10) LN</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Hezrou (demon) (11) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Rakshasa (10) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Salamander, noble (10) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>8th Level (11-12)</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Devil, barbed (11) LE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Elemental, elder (any) (11) N</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>Firre (eladrin) (10) CG</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Leonal (guardinal) (12) NG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><em>Monadic deva (angel) (12) NG</em></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><strong>9th Level (13-14)</strong></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Astral deva (angel) (14) NG</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Ghaele (eladrin) (13) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Glabrezu (demon) (13) CE</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">Ice devil (13) LE</span></p><p></p><p>* <em>italic</em> monster entries denotes not SRD monster.</p><p>** I didn't feel like reassigning the celestial/fiendish animals/vermin. Feel free to do so on your own time =)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mercucio, post: 1644861, member: 7928"] Based on the chart and list given above you can see a typical summon monster spell summons a monster whose CR is X less than the minimum wizard level required to cast the summon monster spell as follows: [CODE] SPELL NAME CR CL MOD Summon monster I 1/2 1st -1 Summon monster II 1 3rd -2 Summon monster III 2 5th -3 Summon monster IV 3-4 7th -4 Summon monster V 4-5 9th -5 Summon monster VI 6-7 11th -5 Summon monster VII 7-9 13th -6 Summon monster VIII 9-11 15th -6 Summon monster IX 11-12 17th -6 [/CODE] You will not the poor scaling in power level per increased spell level. A creature summoned from the [I]summon monster VI[/I] list (CR 6-7) isn't even a speed bump to party of four 13th level characters. To be honest it isn't really even a speed bump to one 13th level character. And the disparity gets worse as the level of the summon monster increases. To remedy this I offer the following alternate guidelines for determining what creature CRs should be assigned to each [I]summon monster[/I] level. [CODE] SPELL NAME CR Summonable Summon monster I 1/2 Summon monster II 1 Summon monster III 2-3 Summon monster IV 4-5 Summon monster V 6-7 Summon monster VI 8-9 Summon monster VII 10-11 Summon monster VIII 12-13 Summon monster IX 14 [/CODE] [I]Note: If a monster has the ability the cast spells, the highest level spell it is capable to casting should be two or more levels lower the level of the summon monster spell used to summon it. i.e. summon monster I - no spells; II - no spells; III - 1st level spells; IV - 2nd level spells; V - 3rd level spells; VI - 4th level spells; VII - 5th level spells; VIII - 6th level spells; IX - 7th level spells.[/I] Essentially the CR range for summon monster IV-IX level breaks down to the minimum caster level -4. [SIZE=3][B]Alternate Summon Monster I-IX Monster Lists[/B][/SIZE] [SIZE=1] [B]1st Level[/B] Celestial dog (1/3) Any good Celestial eagle (1/2) Any good Celestial owl (1/4) Any good Celestial giant fire beetle (1/3) Any good Celestial porpoise1 (1/2) Any good Celestial badger (1/2) Any good Celestial monkey (1/6) Any good Fiendish dire rat (1/3) LE Fiendish raven (1/6) LE Fiendish monstrous centipede, Medium (1/2) NE Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Small (1/2) NE Fiendish hawk (1/3) CE Fiendish monstrous spider, Small (1/2) CE Fiendish octopus1 (1) CE Fiendish snake, Small viper (1/2) CE [B]2nd Level[/B] Elemental, Small (any) (1) N Formian worker (1/2) LN Lemure (devil) (1) LE [B]3rd Level[/B] Archon, lantern (2) LG [I]Cervidal (guardinal) (2) NG[/I] Dretch (demon) (2) CE Elemental, Medium (any) (3) N Formian, warrior (3) LN Hell hound (3) LE Imp (devil) or Quasit (demon) (2) LE or CE Magmin (3) N Mephit (any) (3) N Salamander, flamebrother (3) any evil Yeth hound (3) NE [B]4th Level (4-5)[/B] Achaierai (5) LE Archon, hound (4) LG Barghest (4) LE Djinni (genie) (5) CG Devil, bearded (5) LE Howler(3) CE Janni (genie) (4) N Shadow mastiff (5) NE [B]5th Level (6-7)[/B] Babau (demon) (6) CE Barghest, greater (5) NG Belker (air) (7) NG Bralani (eladrin) (6) CG Chaos beast (7) CN Devil, chain (6) LE Elemental, Large (any) (5) N Fiendish girallon (7) CE Formian, taskmaster (7) LN Hellcat (7) LE Invisible stalker (7) N Lillend (7) CG Lupinal (guardinal) (5) NG Salamander, average (6) any evil Xill (6) LE [B]6th Level (8-9)[/B] Avoral (guardinal) (9) NG Devil, bone (9) LE Efreeti (genie, no [I]wish[/I]) (8) LE Elemental, Huge (any) (7) N [I]Movadic deva (angel) (9) NG[/I] Night hag (9) NE Vrock (demon) (9) CE [B]7th Level (10-11)[/B] Bebilith (demon) (10) CE Couatl (10) LG Elemental, greater (any) (9) N Formian, myrmarch (10) LN Hezrou (demon) (11) CE Rakshasa (10) LE Salamander, noble (10) LE [B]8th Level (11-12)[/B] Devil, barbed (11) LE Elemental, elder (any) (11) N [I]Firre (eladrin) (10) CG[/I] Leonal (guardinal) (12) NG [I]Monadic deva (angel) (12) NG[/I] [B]9th Level (13-14)[/B] Astral deva (angel) (14) NG Ghaele (eladrin) (13) CE Glabrezu (demon) (13) CE Ice devil (13) LE[/SIZE] * [I]italic[/I] monster entries denotes not SRD monster. ** I didn't feel like reassigning the celestial/fiendish animals/vermin. Feel free to do so on your own time =) [/QUOTE]
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