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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Twig" data-source="post: 7562847" data-attributes="member: 31754"><p>Just to throw another data point out there. For the eldritch knight, War Magic says, "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action". So before you cast the cantrip, you have no bonus action available, as nothing has granted you the bonus action yet. Therefore your weapon attack would come after the cantrip.</p><p></p><p>Whereas for their Arcane Charge ability it says, "you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see when you use your Action Surge. You can teleport before or after the additional action." This is not a bonus action, but a special action (special movement?) granted by the Arcane Charge ability, but it is an explicit exception to the rule of having to take the granted action after the triggering action.</p><p></p><p>Personally I listened to the Dragon Talk podcast and Jeremy's reasoning made sense. Just have the free shield bash go after all of your other attacks. If you want to knock someone down first, use your first attack for it. One of the barbarian's special abilities is getting advantage to attack with the drawback that everyone else has advantage to hit them back in the process. Giving a fighter (or whoever else takes the feat) advantage for an athletics roll seems a little overpowered. And that is in addition to the other abilities granted by the feat. It is still a really good teamwork feat.</p><p></p><p>I also require you to pick all targets for your Magic Missile spell before you roll. The spell explicitly says that all missiles strike simultaneously. But each missile damage is rolled separately, unlike some bizarre ruling that Jeremy made once.</p><p></p><p>I do let players determine results before picking the next target for spells like scorching ray or eldritch blast, but you can't do anything else in between. The spell is instantaneous. I am being generous in letting them pick targets one at a time already.</p><p></p><p>If you try to counterspell someone that tries to counterspell your spell, you can, but you lose your other spell so there is no point and you wasted another spell. I don't care if it is RAW. I'm not letting you cast two spells simultaneously. Players are fine with this because then they can counterspell the BBEG without these shenanigans stopping them. And his spells are probably more powerful than theirs anyway.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lord Twig, post: 7562847, member: 31754"] Just to throw another data point out there. For the eldritch knight, War Magic says, "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action". So before you cast the cantrip, you have no bonus action available, as nothing has granted you the bonus action yet. Therefore your weapon attack would come after the cantrip. Whereas for their Arcane Charge ability it says, "you gain the ability to teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see when you use your Action Surge. You can teleport before or after the additional action." This is not a bonus action, but a special action (special movement?) granted by the Arcane Charge ability, but it is an explicit exception to the rule of having to take the granted action after the triggering action. Personally I listened to the Dragon Talk podcast and Jeremy's reasoning made sense. Just have the free shield bash go after all of your other attacks. If you want to knock someone down first, use your first attack for it. One of the barbarian's special abilities is getting advantage to attack with the drawback that everyone else has advantage to hit them back in the process. Giving a fighter (or whoever else takes the feat) advantage for an athletics roll seems a little overpowered. And that is in addition to the other abilities granted by the feat. It is still a really good teamwork feat. I also require you to pick all targets for your Magic Missile spell before you roll. The spell explicitly says that all missiles strike simultaneously. But each missile damage is rolled separately, unlike some bizarre ruling that Jeremy made once. I do let players determine results before picking the next target for spells like scorching ray or eldritch blast, but you can't do anything else in between. The spell is instantaneous. I am being generous in letting them pick targets one at a time already. If you try to counterspell someone that tries to counterspell your spell, you can, but you lose your other spell so there is no point and you wasted another spell. I don't care if it is RAW. I'm not letting you cast two spells simultaneously. Players are fine with this because then they can counterspell the BBEG without these shenanigans stopping them. And his spells are probably more powerful than theirs anyway. [/QUOTE]
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