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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 1837340" data-attributes="member: 23094"><p>On the other hand, you seem to be arguing that it allows people to walk to a point they've *never* seen or, really, even heard of.</p><p></p><p>After all, it's only a DC 15 Survival check to "keep from getting lost," so ...</p><p></p><p>I'm also of the opinion that the way the Survival skill is written is specifically tailored to terrestrial pursuits. After all, everything talks about "Move 1/2 your overland speed" and "avoid natural hazards, like quicksand." I don't think the possibility of it applying to a radically different terrain was particularly well considered when the skill was written. Although the RAW take into account the possiblity of using Survival on another plane of existance entirely (as in, Knowledge (The Planes) grants a +2 synergy bonus on Survival checks on another plane), there's nothing in the RAW that describe exactly what you'd do with such a check. "Avoid getting lost" in the Elemental Plane of Water? "Forage for food and water" on the Astral Plane? "Avoid a natural hazard" on the Negative Energy Plane? What the heck would constitute a "natural hazard" in such a place, and why would your average woodsman know how to avoid it? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>And it's odd that you agree with all three of my alternative scenarios. Alternative #1 - Sammel - is a Fighter with maximum cross-class ranks in Profession (Sailor), who therefore knows how to sail a ship and can manage underlings in the daily tasks - in this case, the other PCs. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>I'm not proposing any changes to the Survival proficiency - though this thread has convinced me that the skill needs some work, that conversation beyond the scope of this thread.</p><p></p><p>What I *am* saying is that, even allowing Survival to work at full efficacy - you know where north is, you know where your port is (assuming the PCs sailed from there to begin with) - it still does not solve the problem of making the ship go the right direction in anything remotely resembling an efficient manner.</p><p></p><p>Rather than seeking to replace the Survival skill with a "last-minute changes," I'm seeking to prevent Survival from running roughshod over a host of other skills. After all, why would you need to Balance when you can just "avoid a natural hazard" like slipping on ice? Why would anyone rely on maps or charts if any half-way competent woodsman can start out in Waterdeep and find his way unerringly to Shou and back with his eyes closed - regardless of his method of travel?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 1837340, member: 23094"] On the other hand, you seem to be arguing that it allows people to walk to a point they've *never* seen or, really, even heard of. After all, it's only a DC 15 Survival check to "keep from getting lost," so ... I'm also of the opinion that the way the Survival skill is written is specifically tailored to terrestrial pursuits. After all, everything talks about "Move 1/2 your overland speed" and "avoid natural hazards, like quicksand." I don't think the possibility of it applying to a radically different terrain was particularly well considered when the skill was written. Although the RAW take into account the possiblity of using Survival on another plane of existance entirely (as in, Knowledge (The Planes) grants a +2 synergy bonus on Survival checks on another plane), there's nothing in the RAW that describe exactly what you'd do with such a check. "Avoid getting lost" in the Elemental Plane of Water? "Forage for food and water" on the Astral Plane? "Avoid a natural hazard" on the Negative Energy Plane? What the heck would constitute a "natural hazard" in such a place, and why would your average woodsman know how to avoid it? :D And it's odd that you agree with all three of my alternative scenarios. Alternative #1 - Sammel - is a Fighter with maximum cross-class ranks in Profession (Sailor), who therefore knows how to sail a ship and can manage underlings in the daily tasks - in this case, the other PCs. ;) I'm not proposing any changes to the Survival proficiency - though this thread has convinced me that the skill needs some work, that conversation beyond the scope of this thread. What I *am* saying is that, even allowing Survival to work at full efficacy - you know where north is, you know where your port is (assuming the PCs sailed from there to begin with) - it still does not solve the problem of making the ship go the right direction in anything remotely resembling an efficient manner. Rather than seeking to replace the Survival skill with a "last-minute changes," I'm seeking to prevent Survival from running roughshod over a host of other skills. After all, why would you need to Balance when you can just "avoid a natural hazard" like slipping on ice? Why would anyone rely on maps or charts if any half-way competent woodsman can start out in Waterdeep and find his way unerringly to Shou and back with his eyes closed - regardless of his method of travel? [/QUOTE]
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