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<blockquote data-quote="Dessert Nomad" data-source="post: 7525317" data-attributes="member: 6976536"><p>But I've seen people comment on this like lack of water is a major problem for all Tier 2 PCs, that it's something that should be a major plot point if it happens and not just 'oh well we'll use up 1 first level slot' or includes a caveat like 'as long as no one has a level of this common class'. It's also tier 2 modules that I've seen with the 'track your water before going into the desert' section in the start. And this isn't just an oddity of 5e, the spell has been around in the same basic form since 1e when clerics were even more likely since party size was assumed to be 6-8 and there were typically fewer classes. People in conversation seem to treat this as a lot more than a 'oh, we'll have to dedicate one first level slot to it' issue.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've never seen an outdoor adventure where players are doing 6-8 non-trivial encounters per day for multiple days. How do you balance the real time needed to run 6-8 encounters that actually use resources per day and also have multiple days of exploration happening? If you're not having multiple days of exploration, then the lack of supplies won't catch up with you, but I really don't see how you'd throw in enough encounters that players notice the lack of a single 1st level spell and also have the exploration phase move quickly enough for the exploration part to actually happen. (This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm really wondering how you manage to pull this off without getting bogged down in tons of encounters or losing the 'exploring lots of land' feel)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you're removing gear to the point that players don't have spellcasting foci, then I'd say that it's pretty likely the challenge to become that their combat gear has been removed, and the lack of water becomes distinctly secondary to the challenge of losing basic equipment. Having enemies steal specifically holy symbols, material component pouches, independent foci, shields with foci embeded, but not any ordinary weapons or shields is probably going to look a bit silly, and you're also going to need to steal every water carrying container (so there's not a drop of water to start off with for create water). I'm not saying that it can't work, but I think you're going to end up with the lack of supplies playing a distant second to the lack of basic 'can I function when we encounter something ' items or is going to look really contrived. Especially if the players are the type to plan ahead and carry extra foci.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dessert Nomad, post: 7525317, member: 6976536"] But I've seen people comment on this like lack of water is a major problem for all Tier 2 PCs, that it's something that should be a major plot point if it happens and not just 'oh well we'll use up 1 first level slot' or includes a caveat like 'as long as no one has a level of this common class'. It's also tier 2 modules that I've seen with the 'track your water before going into the desert' section in the start. And this isn't just an oddity of 5e, the spell has been around in the same basic form since 1e when clerics were even more likely since party size was assumed to be 6-8 and there were typically fewer classes. People in conversation seem to treat this as a lot more than a 'oh, we'll have to dedicate one first level slot to it' issue. I've never seen an outdoor adventure where players are doing 6-8 non-trivial encounters per day for multiple days. How do you balance the real time needed to run 6-8 encounters that actually use resources per day and also have multiple days of exploration happening? If you're not having multiple days of exploration, then the lack of supplies won't catch up with you, but I really don't see how you'd throw in enough encounters that players notice the lack of a single 1st level spell and also have the exploration phase move quickly enough for the exploration part to actually happen. (This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm really wondering how you manage to pull this off without getting bogged down in tons of encounters or losing the 'exploring lots of land' feel) If you're removing gear to the point that players don't have spellcasting foci, then I'd say that it's pretty likely the challenge to become that their combat gear has been removed, and the lack of water becomes distinctly secondary to the challenge of losing basic equipment. Having enemies steal specifically holy symbols, material component pouches, independent foci, shields with foci embeded, but not any ordinary weapons or shields is probably going to look a bit silly, and you're also going to need to steal every water carrying container (so there's not a drop of water to start off with for create water). I'm not saying that it can't work, but I think you're going to end up with the lack of supplies playing a distant second to the lack of basic 'can I function when we encounter something ' items or is going to look really contrived. Especially if the players are the type to plan ahead and carry extra foci. [/QUOTE]
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