Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Second 5th Edition Survey! Plus Results of the First Survey: The Ranger Gets Some Attention!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 7662558" data-attributes="member: 58197"><p>The "blue-collar" thing strikes me as a very thin reed on which to hang the artificer's hat (though a good spoon to mix metaphors with). First of all, blue-collar versus white-collar is a question of background, not class. Second, a PC wizard is no ivory-tower philosopher. They're out there in the muck, slogging through dungeons and battling monsters right alongside the fighters and rogues, and that continues far up the level range. In 3E, a high-level wizard could scry'n'die everything, then retreat to his or her extraplanar fortress for tea and crumpets. That doesn't work in 5E--you just don't have the spell slots, and some of the key spells are much less reliable. There ain't no <em>greater teleport</em> in 5E. Even if you manage to pull off a scry'n'die attack, you better be prepared to camp out at the target location afterward. More likely, you'll have to infiltrate the enemy stronghold on foot like anyone else. NPC wizards may sit in their towers watching the stars, but PC wizards are hard-bitten mercenaries, explorers, and tomb robbers.</p><p></p><p>So, what's that leave? Trapfinding and lockpicking, which in 5E mostly comes down to "Expertise in thieves' tools." That's hardly a basis for picking a whole class full of features (Sneak Attack, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, et cetera, et cetera) that don't match the artificer at all.</p><p></p><p>The best approach IMO would be to go through the class spell lists and see whose spells best approximate what artificers do. Then make a heavily modified version of that class for the artificer... that is, if the artificer simply can't be made into its own class.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 7662558, member: 58197"] The "blue-collar" thing strikes me as a very thin reed on which to hang the artificer's hat (though a good spoon to mix metaphors with). First of all, blue-collar versus white-collar is a question of background, not class. Second, a PC wizard is no ivory-tower philosopher. They're out there in the muck, slogging through dungeons and battling monsters right alongside the fighters and rogues, and that continues far up the level range. In 3E, a high-level wizard could scry'n'die everything, then retreat to his or her extraplanar fortress for tea and crumpets. That doesn't work in 5E--you just don't have the spell slots, and some of the key spells are much less reliable. There ain't no [i]greater teleport[/i] in 5E. Even if you manage to pull off a scry'n'die attack, you better be prepared to camp out at the target location afterward. More likely, you'll have to infiltrate the enemy stronghold on foot like anyone else. NPC wizards may sit in their towers watching the stars, but PC wizards are hard-bitten mercenaries, explorers, and tomb robbers. So, what's that leave? Trapfinding and lockpicking, which in 5E mostly comes down to "Expertise in thieves' tools." That's hardly a basis for picking a whole class full of features (Sneak Attack, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, et cetera, et cetera) that don't match the artificer at all. The best approach IMO would be to go through the class spell lists and see whose spells best approximate what artificers do. Then make a heavily modified version of that class for the artificer... that is, if the artificer simply can't be made into its own class. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Second 5th Edition Survey! Plus Results of the First Survey: The Ranger Gets Some Attention!
Top