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Secret Arts Monk [3.5 homebrew]
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<blockquote data-quote="TKDB" data-source="post: 5921227" data-attributes="member: 6690697"><p>Thanks for the constructive criticism!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A good point. I'll work on trying to make ki a bit more of a unifying factor for the abilities.</p><p>I do think I'll keep the secret/sublime arts division, though -- the main point there is that secret arts replace the really pathetically lackluster class features from the first ten levels (namely slow fall, still mind, and wholeness of body) with stuff that gets better as you go (and as a matter of fact, the improvements to your secret arts come when the regular monk would gain improvements to slow fall). Conversely, sublime arts replace the stuff you get in the latter ten levels of the original class, several of which would be reasonably decent as-is if only you could take them earlier (a prime example of this would be Tongue of the Sun and Moon).</p><p>As for number of class features, I don't feel that's a problem personally. It certainly has a lot of complexity compared to other core martial classes, but it's about standard compared to ToB classes (my goal/benchmark), and much less compared to full spellcasters (which I'm trying to avoid matching). By my count, a level 20 secret arts monk has 32 class features, counting each bonus feat and each rank in a secret art as a separate class feature. A warblade 20 has 28 class features if you count each stance and maneuver as an individual class feature, and the swordsage has 42! If you count individual spells as class features for spellcasters, a 20th-level sorcerer has 44 class features (more if they take a PrC of some sort), and prepared spellcasters have even more.</p><p></p><p>These I can explain. There are only four things that take free actions: The activation of a successful Quivering Palm, the regular light from Light of the Sun, the flight from grandmaster Petals of Wind, and the growth from perfected Roots of the Mountain.</p><p>Quivering Palm is a free action to trigger in its original form.</p><p>The light I felt would be fine to give as a free action, given that it's a pretty minor utility effect that you can only get at level 12, at the earliest.</p><p>The flight is essentially intended to be "you gain a fly speed, but can only use it for a certain duration per day". Not sure if that helps or not, but that was my reasoning behind making it a free action, anyway.</p><p>And finally, the growth from Roots of the Mountain isn't technically a free action at all, because it's an add-on to entering your stance. It's essentially an added benefit you get from the stance if you choose that as your capstone, but you don't necessarily have to use it.</p><p></p><p>The 30% miss chance from disciple Petals of Wind I actually cribbed from the effect <em>Wind Wall</em> has on sling bullets and thrown weapons. It's essentially a somewhat weaker, personal Wind Wall. I have no excuse for the halved miss chance bit, though.</p><p></p><p>I'm totally fine with blowing the other PHB martial classes out of the water, since I feel they all could use a boost; the monk is just the worst offender, and the one that saddens me the most because of the unique flavor.</p><p>However, I do think you make some good points about the SAD and Roots of the Mountain ability. I was actually a little uncertain about the Wis-to-X abilities myself, but decided to leave them in because they struck me as the most appropriate way to mitigate the monk's MAD. However, I suppose I may have gone a bit too far in that regard.</p><p>As for the Roots of the Mountain ability, I'll admit that was a bit of an oversight on my part. Originally, the initiate-rank ability was DR 5/adamantine while in the rooted stance, and the difficult-terrain effect came later (either disciple or master, I don't recall which). I then realized that making DR available that early would make a low-level monk absurdly tough (albeit at the cost of mobility), so I rearranged things a little. I guess I didn't think too hard about the fact that what I was moving to initiate rank was every bit as overpowered, if not moreso!</p><p></p><p>Once again, much thanks for the constructive criticism! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TKDB, post: 5921227, member: 6690697"] Thanks for the constructive criticism! A good point. I'll work on trying to make ki a bit more of a unifying factor for the abilities. I do think I'll keep the secret/sublime arts division, though -- the main point there is that secret arts replace the really pathetically lackluster class features from the first ten levels (namely slow fall, still mind, and wholeness of body) with stuff that gets better as you go (and as a matter of fact, the improvements to your secret arts come when the regular monk would gain improvements to slow fall). Conversely, sublime arts replace the stuff you get in the latter ten levels of the original class, several of which would be reasonably decent as-is if only you could take them earlier (a prime example of this would be Tongue of the Sun and Moon). As for number of class features, I don't feel that's a problem personally. It certainly has a lot of complexity compared to other core martial classes, but it's about standard compared to ToB classes (my goal/benchmark), and much less compared to full spellcasters (which I'm trying to avoid matching). By my count, a level 20 secret arts monk has 32 class features, counting each bonus feat and each rank in a secret art as a separate class feature. A warblade 20 has 28 class features if you count each stance and maneuver as an individual class feature, and the swordsage has 42! If you count individual spells as class features for spellcasters, a 20th-level sorcerer has 44 class features (more if they take a PrC of some sort), and prepared spellcasters have even more. These I can explain. There are only four things that take free actions: The activation of a successful Quivering Palm, the regular light from Light of the Sun, the flight from grandmaster Petals of Wind, and the growth from perfected Roots of the Mountain. Quivering Palm is a free action to trigger in its original form. The light I felt would be fine to give as a free action, given that it's a pretty minor utility effect that you can only get at level 12, at the earliest. The flight is essentially intended to be "you gain a fly speed, but can only use it for a certain duration per day". Not sure if that helps or not, but that was my reasoning behind making it a free action, anyway. And finally, the growth from Roots of the Mountain isn't technically a free action at all, because it's an add-on to entering your stance. It's essentially an added benefit you get from the stance if you choose that as your capstone, but you don't necessarily have to use it. The 30% miss chance from disciple Petals of Wind I actually cribbed from the effect [I]Wind Wall[/I] has on sling bullets and thrown weapons. It's essentially a somewhat weaker, personal Wind Wall. I have no excuse for the halved miss chance bit, though. I'm totally fine with blowing the other PHB martial classes out of the water, since I feel they all could use a boost; the monk is just the worst offender, and the one that saddens me the most because of the unique flavor. However, I do think you make some good points about the SAD and Roots of the Mountain ability. I was actually a little uncertain about the Wis-to-X abilities myself, but decided to leave them in because they struck me as the most appropriate way to mitigate the monk's MAD. However, I suppose I may have gone a bit too far in that regard. As for the Roots of the Mountain ability, I'll admit that was a bit of an oversight on my part. Originally, the initiate-rank ability was DR 5/adamantine while in the rooted stance, and the difficult-terrain effect came later (either disciple or master, I don't recall which). I then realized that making DR available that early would make a low-level monk absurdly tough (albeit at the cost of mobility), so I rearranged things a little. I guess I didn't think too hard about the fact that what I was moving to initiate rank was every bit as overpowered, if not moreso! Once again, much thanks for the constructive criticism! :) [/QUOTE]
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