Sell Me Grimm Tales

[orangefruitbat]

Ok, all this talk about Grimm Tales has intrigued me. And I'm looking for a new low-fantasy setting that's D20, but grittier than standard DnD. So, the game looks like a good fit. However, I understand that it's based on the D20 modern rules which I like, but already own. So what does GT do differently than D20M? What value would I be receiving?

Another contender would be the new Conan RPG. If GT and the Conan RPG got into a fight - who would win?

Feel free to provide me with your complete and utterly biased opinions.

cheers

orangefruitbat

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

So what does GT do differently than D20M? What value would I be receiving?

I hardly know where to begin. The question is really akin to, "I know that Mutants and Masterminds is based on the SRD, so how is it different from D&D?"

Ok, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but really Grim Tales is so vastly different from d20 Modern that it's certainly worth a look. For starters, d20 Modern (a) doesn't cater to a traditional fantasy game and (b) certainly isn't low magic.

The biggest tie that remains between d20M and Grim Tales is that the six basic character classes are the same (Strong, Fast, Tough, etc.). But skills are different (no class skills), no occupations, more things to do with Action Points (more like Spycraft), classes extended to 20 levels... Oh! And no Prestige Classes!

Feats are updated to their 3.5 SRD versions (almost universally). Many new feats are added.

More Talent trees, including new Talents derived from the fantasy classes: Sneak Attack, Rage, Bardic Knowledge, Favored Enemy, Divine Grace, and so on.

Spellcasting is very low magic and very, very unpleasant and unwise to take on lightly.

These are the main differences for a fantasy game, though I should mention the other rules components that will allow you to play other types of genres (horror, firearms, cyber, vehicles, etc.)

I really recommend reading the reviews here at ENworld:

Quick Link to ENworld Reviews

 

[orangefruitbat]

This is exactly the sort of info I'm looking for. I was worried that it would basically be just a D20M reprint, and I'm not so worried any more. It also helps to learn that it's "Grim Tales" and not "Grimm Tales" (like the Brother Grimm).

I think I'm going to have to make a trip to the FLGS.

I hardly know where to begin. The question is really akin to, "I know that Mutants and Masterminds is based on the SRD, so how is it different from D&D?"

Ok, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but really Grim Tales is so vastly different from d20 Modern that it's certainly worth a look. For starters, d20 Modern (a) doesn't cater to a traditional fantasy game and (b) certainly isn't low magic.

The biggest tie that remains between d20M and Grim Tales is that the six basic character classes are the same (Strong, Fast, Tough, etc.). But skills are different (no class skills), no occupations, more things to do with Action Points (more like Spycraft), classes extended to 20 levels... Oh! And no Prestige Classes!

Feats are updated to their 3.5 SRD versions (almost universally). Many new feats are added.

More Talent trees, including new Talents derived from the fantasy classes: Sneak Attack, Rage, Bardic Knowledge, Favored Enemy, Divine Grace, and so on.

Spellcasting is very low magic and very, very unpleasant and unwise to take on lightly.

These are the main differences for a fantasy game, though I should mention the other rules components that will allow you to play other types of genres (horror, firearms, cyber, vehicles, etc.)

I really recommend reading the reviews here at ENworld:

Quick Link to ENworld Reviews

 

[Krieg]

This is exactly the sort of info I'm looking for.

Well Wulf is the man to talk to...what with having wrote it and all.

 

[weiknarf]

3rd edition rules, 4th edition feel

 

[BryonD]

I have said this in other threads, but what the heck.

D20 modern base classes are aptitude based rather than occupation based.
GT looks at that and wonders why aptitude should be restricted to a Modern genre. So it took that good idea and expanded it quite nicely into an anytime anyplace toolkit. The classes are very obvious, so on the surface it appears that GT is a Modern re-tooling. But it takes as much from Spycraft as Modern, for one thing. And it also has lots and lots of little tweaks from all over.

I do not have Conan. If you specifically want to play a Conan game, then Conan may very well be better suited to you. I plan to play a Conanesque game and have no plans to spend money on Conan because I can achieve that feel to my satisifaction with GT. Then I can turn around and play a modern day demon invasion game and a post-apocalypse game with the same book.

You said setting. GT is not a setting. It is the first, to my knowledge, generic D20 game system.

I recommend it.

 

[Krug]

Hmm it's Grim Tales and not GRIMM tales, which would mean stories of a fairytale variety ja?

 

[Turanil]

3rd edition rules, 4th edition feel

LOL!

Ok, all this talk about Grimm Tales has intrigued me. And I'm looking for a new low-fantasy setting that's D20, but grittier than standard DnD. So, the game looks like a good fit. However, I understand that it's based on the D20 modern rules which I like, but already own. So what does GT do differently than D20M? What value would I be receiving?

Another contender would be the new Conan RPG. If GT and the Conan RPG got into a fight - who would win?

Feel free to provide me with your complete and utterly biased opinions.

As already pointed out it's GRIM, not GRIMM. I just hope I won't be the one to be blamed for the mistake! (because of my sig).

About the difference between d20 modern and Grim Tales? I already had d20 modern when I bought Grim Tales. I didn't find it redundant enough to make me regret the purchase. In fact, I never used d20 modern for an actual campaign, but have begun to work on a setting specific to use with Grim Tales, and players are ready to play.

About the difference between Grim Tales and Conan? Conan is a set of rules plus a setting description of the Conan/Hyboria world. Grim Tales only provides rules. They are much more different (and much more interesting IMO) than that provided by Conan d20, and usable in a variety of campaigns.

 

[S'mon]

Conan has great GMing in Hyborea advice that is very valuable for running any pulp sword & sorcery game; Conan's Fate Points are greatly superior to GT's Action Points (IMO). Conan has a complicated combat system with some (IMO) iffy implementation of armour-as-DR, and some of the weapons prices are silly (we know swords should be more expensive than axes, but it gets a bit ridiculous). I do think Conan RPG is great and I highly recommend it. GT is more generic; almost all crunch, zero GMIing advice (a big disappoint to me); but quite inspirational. You could run a variety of pulp sword & sorcery campaigns with Grim Tales' PC classes; Ron Edwards' Sorcerer & Sword for the GMing advice, and I'd recommend Conan-style Fate Points, which work like WHRP Fate Points - you start with 3, can spend 1 to avoid death (eg at -10hp) or to get a lucky break (slave girl smuggles key to your prison cell), more FPs awarded at GM's discretion, usually for major achievements, though IMC I also give FPs out if I screw over the PCs by say starting a scenario with them in jail.

 

[Turanil]

I'd recommend Conan-style Fate Points, which work like WHRP Fate Points - you start with 3, can spend 1 to avoid death (eg at -10hp) or to get a lucky break (slave girl smuggles key to your prison cell), more FPs awarded at GM's discretion, usually for major achievements.

Tasteless anecdote: This morning, while I was in the toilets, I noticed a bottle of very strong acid. I had forgotten about it, and wondered if I would remember it if an atrocious creature from another dimension would try to break into the toilets while I would be in it. (Okay, my mind is going away... I must admit). Then, I thought (and here we get back to the thread): What if in some similar circumstances, in spending an action point a PC would suddenly find a bottle of acid instead of having to fight a hopeless battle barehand? Well, should I create a special Luck feat for that? Or just houserule that an action point could be used in such a way (but you need succeed a Spot roll to notice the bottle of acid however).