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Setting Party level vs an Ancient Red Dragon
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7299191" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>First off....it’s Dr. Smartypants, thank you very much. </p><p></p><p>Second off, I don’t really know what a “king of the hill” monster is. And why are giants a bad comparison? It sounds like you run dragons and giants identically. </p><p></p><p>Don’t you see that as a problem?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know not everyone thinks like me. But I’m not the one hoping for consensus in this matter in order to appeal to WotC for change, am I? </p><p></p><p>As for your source...meh. It doesn’t mean much. It’s not an example from fiction. It’s an anonymous guy on the internet who’s taken the MM entries and his own views and described the tactics he thinks are suitable. Nothing wrong with some of what he says, but if anything, I’d say his views of how dangerous dragons can be runs counter to yours. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is you saying not to use what’s in the stat block. Crappy boring tactic? It’s flight....it’s one of the most effective and game changing tactics there are. Not using this to the dragon’s advantage is like a Barbarian who decides not to use his Rage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I’ve seen what a party can do, yes. And I know that the monsters are designed with an average party in mind. So for my players, who are all experienced players, I know that some monsters may need to be beefed up. Or that I have to match the players’ tactical ability. </p><p></p><p>That last part is key. If your players are tactful and have PCs that are optimized and incredibly complimentary to one another in combat, the answer is not to abandon tactics and go toe to toe. That approach makes zero sense. You have to answer with tactics of your own.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is fine. I don’t entirely disagree with you in this regard, although I think your assessment is extreme, and I think much of it is easily remedied. But this thread is about how to help the OP...it’s not about your critique of monster design. I suggest you start a thread specifically for that and stop using anything remotely related as a chance to rant about it again. This way when these kinds of conversations come up, you can just post a link to your monster design critique thread and let anyone interested join in that discussion. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What would have been constructive would be for you to have offered even one bit of advice to Reynard about his situation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7299191, member: 6785785"] First off....it’s Dr. Smartypants, thank you very much. Second off, I don’t really know what a “king of the hill” monster is. And why are giants a bad comparison? It sounds like you run dragons and giants identically. Don’t you see that as a problem? I know not everyone thinks like me. But I’m not the one hoping for consensus in this matter in order to appeal to WotC for change, am I? As for your source...meh. It doesn’t mean much. It’s not an example from fiction. It’s an anonymous guy on the internet who’s taken the MM entries and his own views and described the tactics he thinks are suitable. Nothing wrong with some of what he says, but if anything, I’d say his views of how dangerous dragons can be runs counter to yours. This is you saying not to use what’s in the stat block. Crappy boring tactic? It’s flight....it’s one of the most effective and game changing tactics there are. Not using this to the dragon’s advantage is like a Barbarian who decides not to use his Rage. I’ve seen what a party can do, yes. And I know that the monsters are designed with an average party in mind. So for my players, who are all experienced players, I know that some monsters may need to be beefed up. Or that I have to match the players’ tactical ability. That last part is key. If your players are tactful and have PCs that are optimized and incredibly complimentary to one another in combat, the answer is not to abandon tactics and go toe to toe. That approach makes zero sense. You have to answer with tactics of your own. This is fine. I don’t entirely disagree with you in this regard, although I think your assessment is extreme, and I think much of it is easily remedied. But this thread is about how to help the OP...it’s not about your critique of monster design. I suggest you start a thread specifically for that and stop using anything remotely related as a chance to rant about it again. This way when these kinds of conversations come up, you can just post a link to your monster design critique thread and let anyone interested join in that discussion. What would have been constructive would be for you to have offered even one bit of advice to Reynard about his situation. [/QUOTE]
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