Shadowrun: What's the likelihood of a complete system overhaul?

Thomas Shey

Legend
It's been a while since I've read 5th edition. But the risks of having my legs rendered useless didn't seem worth the benefit of keeping my limbs hooked up to the wifi while I'm in combat.

I'm not even sure I agree there, if the latter happens 19/20 with no risk and the benefit is strong. I mean, not to put to fine a point on it, drones are a thing both in and out of game, and its not impossible to have those used against you--but they're very useful.
 

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Jaeger

That someone better
Shadowrun has struggled with all of these. Some people dearly loved the changes between 3e and 4e.

In my opinion; 4e did not address the underlying complexity of the system, and SR6 is a dud because it continued that trend.


I was thinking the same thing. A radical change in how things work risks alienating their current fans with no indication that new fans will replace them or surpass their numbers. i.e. It's a tough spot to be in. I'm a fan of the idea that they should work to streamline the rules while retaining as much of the Shadowrun feel as possible.
I've just seen versions of this argument before, particularly regarding the Hero System. I've watched people come in and say "The game wouldn't be slowly dying if you'd streamline it." But when pressed on how that's supposed to work, it never addresses the fact that by the time you streamline it enough (which is inevitably going to involve simplification) you're now trying to fish in pools that others have had staked out for potentially a decade or more now (for example, are you, essentially, trying to get the people who are Savage Worlds fans? Mutants and Masterminds fans? What makes you think you're going to peel many of them off?) But since you're inevitably going to lose things along the way (and if you claim otherwise I'm going to pretty much laugh at you) you'll lose some people who've stuck with it, and might even be attracted now even if its not a design that lands toward the general preference swing in this period.

So given all that, a redesign makes sense because--?

It makes sense because SR as an IP has nothing to lose.

In my opinion; The fondness for SR is almost exclusively for its setting at this point.

But it is a well liked setting/IP - It was a first mover in its RPG genre niche, and in RPG land that carries a LOT of weight.

A medium crunch game between Anarchy and the current SR6 mess would hit a good sweet spot IMO. (Providing that it is Properly play tested...)

You are not really trying to fish in other pools, because there is only one official Shadowrun RPG.

You are trying to attract new blood to your relatively well known IP. And you have a killer back catalogue just sitting there ready to revamp into your new-hotness system; to grow and reinvigorate your stagnating player network.

SR will go the way of GURPS and HERO unless it takes a real stab at a top-down streamlining and relaunching effort. An effort that both Gurps and Hero have never made. We have seen the results of games gradual stagnation into irrelevance when they cater solely to their hardcore playerbase.

The current SR IP owners just need to ask themselves if they are serious about wanting to turn things around or not.

That being said - they may not perceive that there is a problem at all...


Quite frankly, I think systems like GURPS and Champions are currently out of style. Which is too bad, GURPS was a game I enjoyed quite a bit and they had an extensive body of excellent books produced over the years.

I think a lot of that has to do with the rise of the OGL.

They have also made themselves irrelevant in the hobby as well through mismanagement, and failing to address why many potential new players find their systems too much of an initial hurdle to play.

IMO Both are too far gone at this point, and are well on their way to footnote status within the hobby.


You're not the first to suggest it. I found two different fan conversions in a quick google. Neither the one I found last year.

There also are fan conversions for GURPS and Genesys.
The genesys one I found on GMBinder is 84 pages and laid out in very close to Genesys Corebook style.

There is also a ShadowRed fan conversion for CP2020/Red out as well.

Lots of ways now to get your SR fix without the headache of the official SR system...
 

MGibster

Legend
They have also made themselves irrelevant in the hobby as well through mismanagement, and failing to address why many potential new players find their systems too much of an initial hurdle to play.

Steve Jackson Games has been in business for more than forty years at this point and I think they're actually pretty saavy. I believe they correctly read which way the winds were blowing in regards to gaming trends and figured out focusing their attention on GURPS would not yield a good return on investment. Letting GURPS limp along while they focused on Munchkin was the better business decision.
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
Steve Jackson Games has been in business for more than forty years at this point and I think they're actually pretty saavy. I believe they correctly read which way the winds were blowing in regards to gaming trends and figured out focusing their attention on GURPS would not yield a good return on investment. Letting GURPS limp along while they focused on Munchkin was the better business decision.

Yeah, as much as I personally dislike Munchkin, I can't deny that it's ridiculously popular and is basically like printing cash for SJG. They made the right call.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Steve Jackson Games has been in business for more than forty years at this point and I think they're actually pretty saavy. I believe they correctly read which way the winds were blowing in regards to gaming trends and figured out focusing their attention on GURPS would not yield a good return on investment. Letting GURPS limp along while they focused on Munchkin was the better business decision.
They're not even letting it limp - they are, intentionally, giving it crutches.... running it as PDF-only moving forward, and not seeking licenses, because of its increasingly niche nature...

Mr. Jackson is opting to keep it in electronic availability because, in that mode, it's low cost. Still not a profit, but not a huge loss, and a good will effort
He's not seeking new licenses, as GURPS is unlikely to make money on them.
He is allowing new licensees, as some people are having sufficient success to make the license worthwhile to them.
SJG is profiting on the Dungeon Fantasy RPG, an optimized subset of the GURPS rules,

SJG is also profiting on The Fantasy Trip.
 

MGibster

Legend
They're not even letting it limp - they are, intentionally, giving it crutches.... running it as PDF-only moving forward, and not seeking licenses, because of its increasingly niche nature...
Metaphors aside, the salient point is that SJG decided GURPS wasn't going to be buttering their bread. As much as I would love for GURPS to be more popular, from a business perspective, I think they made the right decision.
 


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