Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Shield Guardian Cohort - How do I make it CR 17?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kirin'Tor" data-source="post: 2428807" data-attributes="member: 17624"><p>ECL is different from CR for one specific reason: ECL is long term, CR is short term.</p><p></p><p>CR is a measure of how difficult a creature is for a group of approx~4 equal level characters to defeat, assuming certain standards (PHB Classes, DMG Wealth Levels, etc.) CR shouldn't be used for anything other than short-term judgments (IMO including not using it for long-term villains), for example:</p><p></p><p>A creature that can cast DEATH KNELL at will probably wouldn't even get CR+1 out of it, considering that it will, likely at most, get to use it once before the PCs kill\bypass\trap\bargain\etc. there way past it. It could, potentially, affect the power level vs. the PCs _for that encounter_, but never again.</p><p></p><p>However, giving a PC DEATH KNELL at will would drastically alter the campaign: that PC would leave most battles with quite a bit of power, and would go into most battles at a much higher level than the PHB\DMG assumes..sure, an average (evil) cleric might go into up to 5* encounters under DEATH KNELLs affects per level, but not every battle leaves a kill and/or he won't always have it prepared.</p><p>But if he were _constantly_ under it's affects, he'd be much more powerful than expected....possibly as high as. LA+2</p><p>*(just under half - assuming 14 encounters per level, as the DMG does)</p><p></p><p>For a more extreme example, imagine your average 3rd level group fighting an orc ftr1 _constantly_ affected by TRUE STRIKE. Pretty rough, but would it really be tougher than a orc ftr1 and a orc sor1? The Sor could buff the orc, and they could potentially flank, throw magic missile, etc. So the TRUE STRIKE might make the orc CR+2, equivalent to 2 equal orcs.</p><p></p><p>Now imagine giving a PC an the opportunity to play the TRUE STRIKING ORC...I've got a feeling a 3rd level character with an attack bonus of +25 is a little more powerful than a 5th level character (+2 from the orcs CR adjustment). That character is more in line with a 7th+ level character, thus his LA (and ECL) are much higher than +2.</p><p></p><p>end ECL/CR rant...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kirin'Tor, post: 2428807, member: 17624"] ECL is different from CR for one specific reason: ECL is long term, CR is short term. CR is a measure of how difficult a creature is for a group of approx~4 equal level characters to defeat, assuming certain standards (PHB Classes, DMG Wealth Levels, etc.) CR shouldn't be used for anything other than short-term judgments (IMO including not using it for long-term villains), for example: A creature that can cast DEATH KNELL at will probably wouldn't even get CR+1 out of it, considering that it will, likely at most, get to use it once before the PCs kill\bypass\trap\bargain\etc. there way past it. It could, potentially, affect the power level vs. the PCs _for that encounter_, but never again. However, giving a PC DEATH KNELL at will would drastically alter the campaign: that PC would leave most battles with quite a bit of power, and would go into most battles at a much higher level than the PHB\DMG assumes..sure, an average (evil) cleric might go into up to 5* encounters under DEATH KNELLs affects per level, but not every battle leaves a kill and/or he won't always have it prepared. But if he were _constantly_ under it's affects, he'd be much more powerful than expected....possibly as high as. LA+2 *(just under half - assuming 14 encounters per level, as the DMG does) For a more extreme example, imagine your average 3rd level group fighting an orc ftr1 _constantly_ affected by TRUE STRIKE. Pretty rough, but would it really be tougher than a orc ftr1 and a orc sor1? The Sor could buff the orc, and they could potentially flank, throw magic missile, etc. So the TRUE STRIKE might make the orc CR+2, equivalent to 2 equal orcs. Now imagine giving a PC an the opportunity to play the TRUE STRIKING ORC...I've got a feeling a 3rd level character with an attack bonus of +25 is a little more powerful than a 5th level character (+2 from the orcs CR adjustment). That character is more in line with a 7th+ level character, thus his LA (and ECL) are much higher than +2. end ECL/CR rant... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Shield Guardian Cohort - How do I make it CR 17?
Top