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<blockquote data-quote="smbakeresq" data-source="post: 7418396" data-attributes="member: 28301"><p>You missed the point of my statement entirely. JC claimed it was cheese in his tweet. That he considers it cheese at all compared to SS is absurd. That’s why I put a ? at the end but I guess you missed it.</p><p></p><p>Yes the point of SS is that it is a ridiculous feat that is way more OP then shield master ever was. That’s the point. </p><p></p><p>It’s not a mild change either, Shield Master isn’t any good as a feat now and not worth taking. It was 3 situational benefits in a package that added up to be ok with the right build. The choices before where SS for ranged (dominant) GW or GW + PAM (excellent) or for shield builds Shield Mastery (not as good as first 2 but fun and still useful.)</p><p></p><p>Now since you can’t benefit from your own shield bash if the initiative comes out unfavorable your team can’t either as the creature will just stand up before they can go. That makes it essentially useless. Shield Mastery was a good feat because you could set up yourself (with the right sized creature and good rolls) and sometimes your teammates</p><p></p><p>Both SS and GWM and PAM are FAR more powerful now and let the PC who took them benefit directly from taking them with zero conditions, you just use them when you wish. </p><p></p><p>And don’t bother to say -5 to hit is a limitation, it isn’t. There are many ways to mitigate that, and it’s only -3 to hit for SS anyway since the people who take it take archery style also. </p><p></p><p>Nothing in Shield Master (or any other feat really) compares to the effective -3/+10 DMG with no range or obstacle limitations in SS in a bounded accuracy game. </p><p></p><p>That’s cheese to me by definition. There is a reason many DM limit it and many threads here call it out as OP and ridiculous. I have never seen the thread that Shield Master needs to be reigned in or the build guide in which Shield Master is rated “must have.”</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="smbakeresq, post: 7418396, member: 28301"] You missed the point of my statement entirely. JC claimed it was cheese in his tweet. That he considers it cheese at all compared to SS is absurd. That’s why I put a ? at the end but I guess you missed it. Yes the point of SS is that it is a ridiculous feat that is way more OP then shield master ever was. That’s the point. It’s not a mild change either, Shield Master isn’t any good as a feat now and not worth taking. It was 3 situational benefits in a package that added up to be ok with the right build. The choices before where SS for ranged (dominant) GW or GW + PAM (excellent) or for shield builds Shield Mastery (not as good as first 2 but fun and still useful.) Now since you can’t benefit from your own shield bash if the initiative comes out unfavorable your team can’t either as the creature will just stand up before they can go. That makes it essentially useless. Shield Mastery was a good feat because you could set up yourself (with the right sized creature and good rolls) and sometimes your teammates Both SS and GWM and PAM are FAR more powerful now and let the PC who took them benefit directly from taking them with zero conditions, you just use them when you wish. And don’t bother to say -5 to hit is a limitation, it isn’t. There are many ways to mitigate that, and it’s only -3 to hit for SS anyway since the people who take it take archery style also. Nothing in Shield Master (or any other feat really) compares to the effective -3/+10 DMG with no range or obstacle limitations in SS in a bounded accuracy game. That’s cheese to me by definition. There is a reason many DM limit it and many threads here call it out as OP and ridiculous. I have never seen the thread that Shield Master needs to be reigned in or the build guide in which Shield Master is rated “must have.” [/QUOTE]
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